Politics The future of European defence strategy & manufacturing

The plan is to re-invigorate the EU and its MIC.

Turkey is not part of the EU and, hopefully, never will.
The US, obviously, isn't part of the EU.
The UK got through the whole Brexit to get out of the EU, can't have the cake and eat it.


So yeah, US, UK and Turkey are out.
The UK and Turkey could still have been in if they hadn't been so smug about not needing the EU because they have the US (how is that working out for you? 🤭) and not locking up their main political rival the day after a big economic opportunity presented itself respectively.
 
according to two military unions who have spoken to the defence secretary. On Monday a letter will be sent to parliament laying out the plans for increased recruitment.

- 200,000 total force, active, civilian and reservist. Previous plans were based on 100,000 total. The current force level is ~75,000;
- The Swedish model, making everyone who turns 17 fill out a questionnaire to gauge motivation. The most motivated are invited for a trial period. Tests have shown over 70% retention rate;
- If the voluntary part of the model doesn't produce enough recruits additional people would be called up, no longer voluntarily.

Have they polled migrant groups...that would be interesting . Am assuming non stats.
 
The UK and Turkey could still have been in if they hadn't been so smug about not needing the EU because they have the US (how is that working out for you? 🤭) and not locking up their main political rival the day after a big economic opportunity presented itself respectively.


In addition to the very immoral aspect of doing business with Turkey to begin with...
 
Some Green Initiatives will have to suffer.

 
The UK and Turkey could still have been in if they hadn't been so smug about not needing the EU because they have the US (how is that working out for you? 🤭) and not locking up their main political rival the day after a big economic opportunity presented itself respectively.
My advice to my European friends is don't do it just to stick a finger in Trump's eye, do it because it's the right thing for you. But please, don't start another world war when you're done.
 
The plan is to re-invigorate the EU and its MIC.

The UK got through the whole Brexit to get out of the EU, can't have the cake and eat it.

So yeah, US, UK and Turkey are out.
I suspect some type of exemption will be made for the UK. I suspect that despite Brexit, the UK and EU still want to have close relations. As a major European power, the EU more or less needs the UK. At least for the time being. To use your words, I think both sides want to have their cake and eat it too.
 
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When Victor Davis Hansen speaks, I usually listen. He is very smart and very thoughtful.
 
This "union" really has no basis to complain about Americans.

I know, let's have a meeting and do a group hug. While mandating each citizen to fly Ukrainian flags on their social media profile! Then we can plan another meeting on that meeting!

The EU has failed again – the Ukraine aid package has collapsed
The aid package would have meant the EU's military aid to Ukraine would have doubled.

The planned 40 billion euro aid package for Ukraine is being withdrawn, says EU High Representative for External Relations Kaja Kallas. Kallas announced the withdrawal of the aid package regarding arms aid on Wednesday.

The matter was reported by Euronews, among others.

The aid package was originally presented by Kallas himself. The purpose of the huge aid package would have been for EU countries to commit to supporting Ukraine with 20–40 billion euros over the next year. Each member state was supposed to contribute to financing the package in proportion to the size of its own economy.

According to Reuters, the aid package previously received broad approval from the EU's northern and eastern member states.

Italy and Spain announced on Monday that the countries were not ready for such a large aid package. Other southern member states have also opposed the package earlier.

The passage of the aid package would have meant a doubling of the EU's military support. Last year, the EU provided Ukraine with military aid worth around twenty billion euros.

According to Kallas, the EU is now trying to focus on delivering two million artillery shells to Ukraine.


Finnish Defense minister:
Minister of Defense Antti Häkkänen (Kok) considers the collapse of the 40 billion euro Ukraine aid package from European countries to be “a miserable thing”.

According to media reports, the package, promoted by the EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Kaja Kallas, collapsed due to opposition from Spain, Italy and France in particular.

The countries’ share of financing the package would have been proportional to the size of their economies.

– This would have been an important package. Now we are moving forward in smaller steps, that is not so good, Häkkänen commented in Parliament on Friday.

– Russia is waging a war of aggression and has threatened the rest of Europe. As a small country on the eastern border, we need strong understanding from the large countries of Western and Southern Europe. Yes, we have it, but not at a sufficient level.

Häkkänen described the discussion around Ukraine to IS on Thursday as Europe not even on board the train, but on the sidelines watching where the train is going.

– The British and French are currently mainly planning ex post security guarantees to protect the deal. The deal is influenced in particular by the Americans, Russia and Ukraine, but Europe is not making that deal, Häkkänen said.

According to Häkkänen, planning meetings of the armed forces or meetings of defense ministers consider how security guarantee arrangements will be made when “someone else has made the deal.”

– Europe shouldn’t get into such a situation, Häkkänen smiled.


Meanwhile these EUnuchs have no problem sending 7.5 billion to south Africa and Syria.


 
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This "union" really has no basis to complain about Americans.

I know, let's have a meeting and do a group hug. While mandating each citizen to fly Ukrainian flags on their social media profile! Then we can plan another meeting on that meeting!



Finnish Defense minister:


Meanwhile these EUnuchs have no problem sending 7.5 billion to south Africa and Syria.


I don't understand why Kallas/EU wanted to mandate that nations like france double-triple their current contributions based on GNI indicator in an effort to double the overall aid to Ukraine. Isn't that doomed from the start?
EU should first start using the still left over money from covid relief 100 billion euros, and direct at least some from the cohesion fund of 50 billion.
 
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As a sidenote. The media i follow in my country openly laughs at the news that EU rebranded the EU plan of "REarm Europe" to "readiness 2030". Pointing out that its due to "sensibility issues related to the previous name".

I deliberately searched what Italy's Meloni had to say since i have respect for her. And her point was
"I believe that 'Rearm Europe' is a misleading name for citizens because we are called to strengthen our defence capabilities but today this doesn't mean trivially buying armaments," Meloni told the Senate on Tuesday.


For Meloni, the focus should be wider and cover "operability, essential services, energy infrastructures, supply chains: all things that are not simply done with weapons."

"There is no defence without this approach," Meloni said.


Now some might disagree with her but i understand the logic. By having a more self sufficient and resilient Europe (as shown by the reliance on Russian energy, china etc.) is as important as arms.
 
Now some might disagree with her but i understand the logic. By having a more self sufficient and resilient Europe (as shown by the reliance on Russian energy, china etc.) is as important as arms.

It should be done in addition to rearmament.

Sounds more like they want to spent money on their roads and renovations as "defense spending".
 
As a sidenote. The media i follow in my country openly laughs at the news that EU rebranded the EU plan of "REarm Europe" to "readiness 2030". Pointing out that its due to "sensibility issues related to the previous name".

I deliberately searched what Italy's Meloni had to say since i have respect for her. And her point was
"I believe that 'Rearm Europe' is a misleading name for citizens because we are called to strengthen our defence capabilities but today this doesn't mean trivially buying armaments," Meloni told the Senate on Tuesday.


For Meloni, the focus should be wider and cover "operability, essential services, energy infrastructures, supply chains: all things that are not simply done with weapons."

"There is no defence without this approach," Meloni said.


Now some might disagree with her but i understand the logic. By having a more self sufficient and resilient Europe (as shown by the reliance on Russian energy, china etc.) is as important as arms.
I think she makes down to Earth sense. I am really worried about spending money because we need to spend money. This can lead to over engineered white elephant projects with a couple of dozen amazing drones that can do rocket science but get wiped out by a hundred cheap 9,99 a piece drone.

What do we have, what do we need, what are our greatest threats? Who will do it and who will commit in buying.
 
It should be done in addition to rearmament.

Sounds more like they want to spent money on their roads and renovations as "defense spending".
For sure. Italy's military has multiple different material acquisition projects underway already. Likely the activation of the national escape clause will do more good than the 150 billion loans itself the package entails. For Finland for example, if i remember correctly, the 150 billion doesn't really do any good since we can get better loans ourselves.
 
What do we have, what do we need, what are our greatest threats? Who will do it and who will commit in buying.

We are preparing for possible large scale war and most European countries lack the basics for that. From boots to artillery and from tanks to drones.

Lack of some long range air defense systems is not the biggest issue.

Our militaries have to be, and look, large enough that even some thick headed dictator in the east understand, that it's not worth it. Having a bunch of gadgets wont do it.
 
We are preparing for possible large scale war and most European countries lack the basics for that. From boots to artillery and from tanks to drones.

Lack of some long range air defense systems is not the biggest issue.

Our militaries have to be, and look, large enough that even some thick headed dictator in the east understand, that it's not worth it. Having a bunch of gadgets wont do it.
I think that she meant to do the basics before taking the leap.

I think I heard that most artillery shells needs supplies from China. So If we only invest in part of the manufacturing without securing the supply chain, it may cost much money for poor result.

We have tech, the production stays low because state orders are low...and not only that everyone has his preferred supplier, dwindling again the numbers of orders. I do not foresee that defense companies will work together and share know how, but the idea would be also to make larger tenders: there will be winners and there will be losers. Unfortunately that is where the politiians will mess it up.

 
We have tech, the production stays low because state orders are low...and not only that everyone has his preferred supplier, dwindling again the numbers of orders. I do not foresee that defense companies will work together and share know how, but the idea would be also to make larger tenders: there will be winners and there will be losers. Unfortunately that is where the politiians will mess it up.

Politicians should set the budget and legal framework, and then let the military draft the actual plans. Politicians job is to listen and sign. I think this has worked well here.
 
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"Why no more buy. "

If you buy a plane, you're married to it for decades. Potential that the country that produces your spares and software ends up as an enemy, is not acceptable risk.
 
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But toned down export versions (not particularly aircrafts…thinking about German U212 subs for example) aren’t really a new thing, are they?
 

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