Photos Armenia v Azerbaijan
- Thread starter saiga
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It doesn't look all that "internationally recognized" anymore, if we look at the behavior of the P5 in the UNGA vote about this territorial dispute.
What the war showed so far, is that Azeris couldn't make much progress, despite having superior numbers.
That's ultimatum language. Ultimatum languages don't solve international conflicts nor disputes.
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No. There is a still valid an UN resolution says Karabagh invasion is illegal by Armenian forces then no country in the world recognises deFacto proArmenian Karabagh state included Russia Iran EU and USA.
Again. İllegal Karabagh state is not recognised by any country.
Unfortunatley most of the modern world peoples thought that this battle is expansionist policy of Azerbaijan, indeed Karabagh invaded Azerbaijan soil.
Briefly Azerbaijan want to liberate her illegally invaded lands offcially recognised by UN members.
Official UN resolution is here. it is valid decision..
United Nations General Assembly Resolution 62/243
United Nations General Assembly Resolution 62/243 - Wikipedia
Those are from BBC HARDTALK programs and tell brieflfy for neutral peoples.
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So, after all this days of "blitzkrieg", "dronespam", "futuristic war", Azerbaijan managed to get a few small villages back. In the meantime, Azerbaijan wasnt able to gain any sizable amount of terrain of the high ground surrounding their gains and their axis of advance in the south(which has its shoulder against the Iranian border, in an almost rehearsal of the Ucrainian cavalcade around the south in Donbass with their shoulder against the Russian border, that ended with forces and pockets cut against the border, with some forces later retreating and gettin interned in Russia). Doesnt seem like a huge triumph if you ask me.
Sorry, but seems a failure in my book, to start a war for such gains. As I said before, seems that Azerbaijan lost their window of opportunity to make irreversible territorial gains and now the game its up to the big boys.
Dont think the ceasefires will hold for long before breachs start to happen here and there like drops falling during a rainy day, but Im more than sure, that Armenians are gettin crates and gear to counter the Azeris at this very moment. If they try this trick again in a month, they are going to get more than the blodied nose they just got.
At the end, when the dust starts to settle, it was the same old story.... lots of soldiers lives wasted, because someone had an incredible plan which didnt hold when contacted with the battlefield reality. Lets wait till Azerbaijan discloses their KIA numbers, including Syrian moderate beheader Ascaris to see if this was a victory, because on the ground, and with the available data, at least to me, it looks like an stalemate.
Just my 2 c.
Sorry, but seems a failure in my book, to start a war for such gains. As I said before, seems that Azerbaijan lost their window of opportunity to make irreversible territorial gains and now the game its up to the big boys.
Dont think the ceasefires will hold for long before breachs start to happen here and there like drops falling during a rainy day, but Im more than sure, that Armenians are gettin crates and gear to counter the Azeris at this very moment. If they try this trick again in a month, they are going to get more than the blodied nose they just got.
At the end, when the dust starts to settle, it was the same old story.... lots of soldiers lives wasted, because someone had an incredible plan which didnt hold when contacted with the battlefield reality. Lets wait till Azerbaijan discloses their KIA numbers, including Syrian moderate beheader Ascaris to see if this was a victory, because on the ground, and with the available data, at least to me, it looks like an stalemate.
Just my 2 c.
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No. There is a still valid an UN resolution says Karabagh invasion is illegal by Armenian forces then no country in the world recognises deFacto proArmenian Karabagh state included Russia Iran EU and USA.
Again. İllegal Karabagh state is not recognised by any country.
Unfortunatley most of the modern world peoples thought that this battle is expansionist policy of Azerbaijan, indeed Karabagh invaded Azerbaijan soil.
Briefly Azerbaijan want to liberate her illegally invaded lands offcially recognised by UN members.
Official UN resolution is here. it is valid decision..
United Nations General Assembly Resolution 62/243
United Nations General Assembly Resolution 62/243 - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Those are from BBC HARDTALK programs and tell brieflfy for neutral peoples.
This resolution is not supported by the P5.
That’s my point. Countries that actually bear the brunt of responsibility for all consequences that arise from international conflicts, don’t support this resolution. Plus UNGA résolutions aren’t binding.
So this in fact means there is no international consensus on this.
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I thought you said democracy doesnt matter?
I never said that. I said democracy is a tool that works, but only if it’s used to protect society and not to destroy it.
But this has little to do with the way the UN works. Countries are extremely unequal and so are their responsibilities, that’s why the UN Security Council holds the ability to decide who gets to have sovereignty and who doesn’t. Decisions there are entirely based on utilitarianism and self-interest. While nobody cares about General Assembly votes if they don’t align with P5 interests
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Yeap. Permanent peace would be good for all and their poor economies.
Indeed Armenia 2 M populated small country stucked between Turkey and Azerbaijan. She spend too much money for defence and seems to be not sunstainable long long years for her economy.
According to Azerbijanis battle maybe ceased for now but war seems not.
I wish permanent peace and good neighbouring for all.
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They're practicing Turkish doctrine which puts an emphasis on SEAD, EW and giving overwhelming losses in a bang for buck manner with a precision munition that only costs a few thousand dollars per strike. For what it is, based on the use of doctrine they made excellent progress.
To put it in dumbed down and more understandable terms, the number of visually confirmed Armenian losses either by damage or outright destroyed (82 tanks, 8 APC's, 18 IFV's, 1 ARV, 20 towed howitzers, 11 SPH's, 23 MRLS, 14 SAM's 4 radars, 1 JDS, 143 various logistic trucks/jeeps/other vehicles totaling 325 individual pieces of equipment) are probably the equivalent to the entire inventory (if not larger) of the Lithuanian military, without having to take serious and heavy losses through land warfare.
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I'm fairly sure you implied strongly that democracy was a historical 'happenchance'. Further implying that alternatives to democracy were just as valid.
The only known alternative to Democracy, if one excludes anarchy, is dictatorship - which you appear to endorse.
So do you endorse Dictatorships? Or quausi-dictatorship, perhaps with a vote every 20 years or so, with one name on the ballot?
I’m not an ideology fanatic. I don’t take sides nor worship any system as though it was the golden calf. I don’t endorse any system of values nor any system of governance. I look at society, at its problems, and at its needs within the context of real circumstances and capabilities, and agree with whatever works for this particular environment.
Religiously holding onto systems as though they are holy is fanaticism, and useful for those who don’t want to deal with reassessing the overwhelming amount of variables every nation encounters every year or decade. But that’s where revolutions eventually come from. The inability to objectively reassess reality and adapt to it, instead choosing to cling to a tried solution like one does to a favorite blanket.
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I agree with you on the doctrine use Thanamestolga, and the idea of trowing money gear and ordnance in exchange for enemy casualties in an atrition war that Armenia couldnt ever dream on wining.
The problem I do see, is that Azerbaijan, seem to have sustained some heavy casualties in engagements with the Armenians, that simply diluted the gains of embracing this doctrine.
IMHO it would have been better for Azerbaijan interests and treasure, to have engaged in a long attrition war against Armenia, making it unsustainable for them in the mid term run, by theowing their economy and whole country stability down into the gutter.
They seem to have decided to throw both the treasure and gadgets + the piles of corpses for very small gains.
Sure, that US, Russia, Turkey, France, UK, South Korea, Japan and any other advanced military forces can wear down an enemy with a small/less technologically advanced army. Seems that Azerbaijan was time constrained and that they threw precaution out of the window, sustaining casualties they shouldnt have incurred had they stuck with the doctrine.
Dunno, seems that original plan didnt work as intended from the available info I have come accross.
Off topic. Good to see you around Thanasmestolga. With all the deployments and operations Turkish military has around at any moment during the last few years, I always remember the old Turkish members at MPnet, hoping that they are doing fine.
Once again, good to see you around safe, sound and still kicking. Regards from Spain mate ?
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Are you mentioned Merkel, she ruled for about 15 years? And her name was not actually on the ballot at all.
Man, you live in a freaking Kingdom and can not vote even for one name. Think we call it pseudo-democracy.
Same with US of A when only two political parties share all power and no one other can compete.
Very small number of countries is a real dictatorships, other more or less democratic (yes i mean China and Iran are also democraties).
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How much does the MAM munition cost? I cannot find anything about it but, surely, it's not a few thousand dollars. Let's say, an U.S.-made Hellfire missile cost well over $160k over 20 years ago. I know the MAM-L is not the Hellfire and the labour costs are much lower in Turkey.
India bought 10 Harop suicide drones for $100mln in 2009, so a unit price was $10mln. It's bloody expensive, so it's totally uneconomical to attack a tank with it. Maybe an S-300 system, but not something that is worth less than $10mln.
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