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I have seen this debated multiple times. 80% yes right now given the will to do so. 100% with effort.
Europe could take a leap forward in logistics. It isn't a shiny new fighter jet, but they need it.
Politics The future of European defence | strategy & industry |
- Thread starter Mike1976
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Europe could take a leap forward in logistics. It isn't a shiny new fighter jet, but they need it.
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Denmark buys APC's and Mistrals.
The armed forces purchase 130 armored personnel carriers with funds from the Acceleration Fund
The Acceleration Fund is increasing the speed of the reconstruction of the Armed Forces. This is now concretely shown by the fact that Denmark buys 130 armored personnel carriers from the Finnish manufacturer Patria for DKK 1.9 billion. As part of the acquisition, the defense will have a small number of armored personnel carriers delivered already this year.
turbo has been put on the reconstruction of the Armed Forces with the government's acceleration fund. This underlines the purchase of 130 armored personnel carriers from the Finnish manufacturer Patria, which will strengthen the combat power in the Armed Forces.
Already this year, Denmark can have a small number of armored personnel carriers delivered from Patria, which can be used for training and education, so that the soldiers can quickly get to know the material. In this way, the Armed Forces are ready to use the personnel carriers when they are expected to be delivered in larger numbers from 2026 onwards.
”This is an example of well-functioning Nordic cooperation in the field of defence. The 130 armored personnel carriers strengthen the Armed Forces' combat power, and with the possibility of having a number of vehicles delivered already this year, the Armed Forces can use the equipment more quickly and get to know it. It is absolutely crucial in the current security policy situation”, says Defense Minister Troels Lund Poulsen.
The armored personnel carriers must be used both for building up the combat power in the light infantry battalion and for the heavy brigade. The wagons must be used by both infantry and engineering units, such as command station, communications, ambulances and for electronic warfare.
The 130 personnel carriers cost a total of approx. DKK 1.9 trillion, which is financed via the Acceleration Fund.
”With the purchase of armored personnel carriers from Patria, we strictly the Army broadly with a contribution to both the light infantry battalion and the heavy brigade, so that Denmark's defense is modernized and the soldiers have updated equipment. At the same time, it is important to strengthen the European defense industry – and that Denmark supports the industry by buying European. We do that with this purchase”, says Defense Minister Troels Lund Poulsen.
The armored personnel carriers have been developed in a joint program between Sweden, Germany, Latvia and Finland, and they are produced in Finland. They are supplied in several different variants.
Forsvaret køber 130 pansrede mandskabsvogne med midler fra Accelerationsfonden
Accelerationsfonden øger hastigheden på genopbygningen af Forsvaret. Det viser sig nu helt konkret ved, at Danmark køber 130 pansrede mandskabsvogne fra den finske producent Patria for 1,9 milliarder kroner. Forsvaret får som en del af anskaffelsen leveret et mindre antal pansrede mandskabsvogne...www.fmn.dk
Denmark buys several hundred French Mistral missiles
Newly purchased French Mistral missiles will be used for the Danish army's future short-range air defense.
Denmark has signed a procurement agreement for the acquisition of French Mistral missiles, which will be used for the army's future short-range anti-aircraft defences.
This has happened in connection with the Danish royal couple's three-day state visit to France, in which Defense Minister Troels Lund Poulsen (V) also participates.
How much money is spent from the Danish side on the French missiles and how many are purchased, the Ministry of Defense will not disclose.
The ministry simply states that these are "several hundred missiles". Troels Lund Poulsen emphasizes that the agreement is "another important step in building the Danish air defence".
- The agreement not only emphasizes our good cooperation with France, it also strengthens Danish fighting power and security. Close cooperation with France is absolutely necessary at a time of war in Europe and a security policy situation that is continuously developing, says the minister in a press release.
A joint purchase
It was expected that Denmark will purchase French missiles. Back in December, the media Olfi wrote that Denmark was one of nine EU countries that had joined forces for joint defense procurement.
The French Ministry of Defence's procurement agency wrote this on its website, according to Olfi. Specifically, it was said that the countries had come together to purchase a total of 1,500 French-produced Mistral 3 missiles.
Mistral missiles can attack combat aircraft operating at low altitudes, as well as helicopters and drones.
The new short-range air defense has not yet been built, but will be part of the army's 1. Brigade. The air force must protect the brigade against threats from the air.
In a defense agreement from 2024, it was stated that Denmark must purchase a long-range and two short-range air defense systems.
Denmark must have both a temporary and a permanent air defence.
Danmark køber flere hundrede franske Mistral-missiler
Nyindkøbte franske Mistral-missiler skal bruges til den danske hærs kommende kortrækkende luftværn.www.dr.dk
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Maybe this is the correct thread to discuss this further.
As @Hiryu2.0 posted on russia-ukraine-war thread.
Germany will deploy 45th Panzer Brigade into lithuania. Fully operational by 2027
www.bundeswehr.de
The inclusion of the multinational battle group is interesting. As per my understanding that unit is a hodgepodge of different units and capabilities crammed into one battalion.
The present enhanced Forward Presence Battlegroup/Multinational Battlegroup Lithuania will be restructured and integrated into the brigade as a third combat battalion.
In addition, a German brigade – 37 Armoured Infantry Brigade since January 2025 – has been available in Germany. In the event of a crisis, this brigade will be deployed to Lithuania.
Canada plans to deploy two battalions of a brigade to Latvia by 2025. The United Kingdom will, in addition to its participation to the eFPenhanced Forward Presence Battlegroup in Estonia, earmark a brigade for rapid deployment to the Baltic region.
As @Hiryu2.0 posted on russia-ukraine-war thread.
Germany will deploy 45th Panzer Brigade into lithuania. Fully operational by 2027
Bundeswehr in Lithuania
Germany is bringing a heavy manoeuvre brigade to Lithuania, consisting of 5,000 Bundeswehr personnel.
www.bundeswehr.de
- Staff and Support Company Panzer Brigade 45 (Stabs- und Unterstützungskompanie Panzerbrigade 45; currently forming)
- Panzergrenadier Battalion 122 (Panzergrenadierbataillon 122), in Oberviechtach with 44x Puma Infantry fighting vehicles — will move to Lithuania in 2026
- Panzer Battalion 203 (Panzerbataillon 203), in Augustdorf with 44x Leopard 2A7 main battle tanks — will move to Lithuania in 2025
- Multinational Battle Group Lithuania, in Rukla (will join Panzer Brigade 45 in 2026)
- Panzer Artillery Battalion 455 (Panzerartilleriebataillon 455; will form in Germany and move to Lithuania before 2027)
- Supply Battalion 456 (Versorgungsbataillon 456; will form in Germany and move to Lithuania before 2027)
- Reconnaissance Company 45 (Aufklärungskompanie 45; will form in Germany and move to Lithuania before 2027)
- Panzer Engineer Company 45 (Panzerpionierkompanie 45; will form in Germany and move to Lithuania before 2027)
- Signal Company Panzer Brigade 45 (Fernmeldekompanie Panzerbrigade 45; currently forming)
The inclusion of the multinational battle group is interesting. As per my understanding that unit is a hodgepodge of different units and capabilities crammed into one battalion.
The present enhanced Forward Presence Battlegroup/Multinational Battlegroup Lithuania will be restructured and integrated into the brigade as a third combat battalion.
In addition, a German brigade – 37 Armoured Infantry Brigade since January 2025 – has been available in Germany. In the event of a crisis, this brigade will be deployed to Lithuania.
Canada plans to deploy two battalions of a brigade to Latvia by 2025. The United Kingdom will, in addition to its participation to the eFPenhanced Forward Presence Battlegroup in Estonia, earmark a brigade for rapid deployment to the Baltic region.
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The main ground combat system looks promising. Imagine if all Euro nations were partners for it instead of just Germany and France and with other vehicles utilizing the same chassis system. You'd simplify logistics and every nation would get a piece of the manufacturing or have the same facilities and tooling should one partnered nation come up short. Instead of having Leopards, Leclerc's, Abrams, and Challengers to manufacture and support with different parts and systems while keeping ammo the same, you'd have just one. Keep it simple.
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True. But if Germany and France actually stick to it, it would be huge improvement from the last attempt with Kampfpanzer III / Napoleon I.
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Denmark joins as fifth European nation the CAVS Program for a new 6x6 APC.
euro-sd.com
Denmark becomes fifth nation to join the CAVS programme - European Security & Defence
Denmark has become the fifth nation to join the Common Armoured Vehicle System programme, Patria announced on 1 April 2025.
euro-sd.com
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I don't think that logistics are the main problem per se but the different hardware used is what makes logistics complicated.
Rushing troops to the eastern EU border in an emergency will be no problem.
I see a bigger problem in not enough force enablers like ISR and ballistic missiles.
Germany buying 5 Puls launchers is a joke...
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These five are only an initial order to replace the five M270s donated to Ukraine. Israel can deliver a limited amount of systems within an expedited time frame unlike the US which would take years for the first batch. Germany is getting their first systems this year where as for reference if we had gone for Himars instead of PULS the first delivery was expected to be in 2029-30. The first four PULS systems were delivered last year, less than mine months after placing the order. Germany is piggy-backing on an option for additional systems within the Dutch contract.
As I've written in the Western Europe thread before the Netherlands wouldn't be buying it if Germany wasn't planning on buying it also and German officials were part of the Dutch delegation.
Being forced to use American chassis, being restricted to US missiles unless an expensive nation specific modification was made and/or reliance on US political mood swings for access to ammunition and spares makes Himars, M270 and GMARS highly unappealing for Germany who wants to reduce reliance on US imports.
Buying off-the-shelf and combined purchases has already been happening more often and with rearmament speeding up this'll only increase in scope.
Germany Approves Procurement of Israeli PULS Rocket Artillery
Germany has approved a 65-million-euro ($68 million) purchase of an initial batch of five PULS rocket artillery systems for the German Army.
thedefensepost.com
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We need something like this as backup when EU is being stalled and as they intend to leave the UK out of these EU projects.
UK joined European officials at secret dinner to plot radical rearmament fund
A supranational bank would sidestep the European Commission, involve the British, and allow defense-spending off the balance sheet.
The off-the-books gathering brought together senior finance ministry officials from Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Poland, the Netherlands, and the United Kingdom to float the idea of creating a supranational bank specifically for the purpose of jointly buying weapons and slashing the cost of defense procurement, according to officials familiar with the matter.
www.politico.eu
UK joined European officials at secret dinner to plot radical rearmament fund
A supranational bank would sidestep the European Commission, involve the British, and allow defense-spending off the balance sheet.
The off-the-books gathering brought together senior finance ministry officials from Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Poland, the Netherlands, and the United Kingdom to float the idea of creating a supranational bank specifically for the purpose of jointly buying weapons and slashing the cost of defense procurement, according to officials familiar with the matter.
UK joined European officials at secret dinner to plot radical rearmament fund
A supranational bank would sidestep the European Commission, involve the British, and allow defense-spending off the balance sheet.
www.politico.eu
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The less self reliance of the US to be your logistics main supplier the better. Good, good, about dang time.
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Talking about logistics. Anyone wondered where the road with SALIS may take us? Given that a current more or most likely theatre of war in Europe would probably not need that sort of airlift capability and the withdrawal from Afghanistan reduced that need, do you think Europe/EU maybe NATO as a whole will invest in some sort of replacement/redundancy for Ukrainian An-124s? I heard that Airbus is kinda onto it somehow but haven't heard of it since..
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This is precisely what the SATOC project (Strategic Air Transport for Outsized Cargo) launched in 2021 with the fourth round of PESCO funds (with Germany as coordinator and Czech Republic, France and the Netherlands as partners) and its most recent industrial derivative, the ESOCA project (European System for Outsized Cargo Airlift) launched in 2023 (Leaded by Airbus with ITP, GMV, SAFRAN, Leonardo and others as partners) and financed almost entirely by the European Defence Fund should be completed by the end of this year or early next year.
The objective of ESOCA is to carry out the necessary evaluations and studies to devise an adequate future replacement for the current European dependence on Antonov 124 and well before the C-17 reach the end of its service date...
They have to define the eventual European replacement (made-in Airbus of course) above the current capabilities of the A400M, going for a new design around or above 100tm of payload.
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Rheinmetall has bought Hagedorn-NC, a producer of chemical components for lacquer. The company will switch to producing cellulose nitrate for ammunition production. Right now such components are sourced from China which has limited volume as a lot of it is going to russia, creating a bottleneck.
Rheinmetall übernimmt Hagedorn-NC GmbH – Stärkung der Lieferkette für Treibladungsproduktion - Unternehmerschaft Düsseldorf und Umgebung e.V.
(cs) Die Düsseldorfer Rheinmetall AG übernimmt die Hagedorn-NC GmbH mit Hauptsitz in Osnabrück, Niedersachsen. Das Traditionsunternehmen produziert seit über 100 Jahren industrielle Nitrocellulose, bisher vorwiegend für zivile Anwendungen. Mit der Übernahme durch Rheinmetall wird ein Großteil...
unternehmerschaft.wigadi.de
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Latvia to buy 42 ASCOD-2 IFV... More work for GDELS-SBS.
Also, Spain has selected Quantum to replace the aging Raven RQ-11B and the discontinued WASP AE. In addition, Skydio X10 will be procured for company/sub-tactical units to reinforce their ISR capabilities.
The Quantum Twister purchased in undisclosed quantities will replace the Wasp AE in service with Air Force special operations units...
In the other hand the Quantum Vector AI (R24) will replace the Raven. The first adquisition phase involves 91 systems (182 UAVs) for the Spanish Army and Navy. Another Vector AI system from a separate prucurement will go to the Spanish Civil Guard. The military procurement programme foresees up to 150 Vector AI systems.
The Skydio X10s procured will be atleast 114 systems (456 UAVs) that will be delivered to Army, Navy and Air Force units.
www.infodefensa.com
Also, Spain has selected Quantum to replace the aging Raven RQ-11B and the discontinued WASP AE. In addition, Skydio X10 will be procured for company/sub-tactical units to reinforce their ISR capabilities.
The Quantum Twister purchased in undisclosed quantities will replace the Wasp AE in service with Air Force special operations units...
In the other hand the Quantum Vector AI (R24) will replace the Raven. The first adquisition phase involves 91 systems (182 UAVs) for the Spanish Army and Navy. Another Vector AI system from a separate prucurement will go to the Spanish Civil Guard. The military procurement programme foresees up to 150 Vector AI systems.
The Skydio X10s procured will be atleast 114 systems (456 UAVs) that will be delivered to Army, Navy and Air Force units.
El Ejército de Tierra español adjudica a Quantum un contrato de 27 millones para el suministro de drones Vector
De acuerdo con el fabricante, este dron de despegue y aterrizaje vertical (VTOL), tiene un peso de 9,5 kg, una envergadura de 2,8 metros, un radio de acción de más de 60 kilómetros y una aut ...
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Additionally KNDS Deutschland is building it under license production as EuroPULS, which is a no-go for most American systems. If it's already being built in Germany you can bet Germany will be one of the primary users.These five are only an initial order to replace the five M270s donated to Ukraine. Israel can deliver a limited amount of systems within an expedited time frame unlike the US which would take years for the first batch. Germany is getting their first systems this year where as for reference if we had gone for Himars instead of PULS the first delivery was expected to be in 2029-30. The first four PULS systems were delivered last year, less than mine months after placing the order. Germany is piggy-backing on an option for additional systems within the Dutch contract.
As I've written in the Western Europe thread before the Netherlands wouldn't be buying it if Germany wasn't planning on buying it also and German officials were part of the Dutch delegation.
Being forced to use American chassis, being restricted to US missiles unless an expensive nation specific modification was made and/or reliance on US political mood swings for access to ammunition and spares makes Himars, M270 and GMARS highly unappealing for Germany who wants to reduce reliance on US imports.
Buying off-the-shelf and combined purchases has already been happening more often and with rearmament speeding up this'll only increase in scope.
Germany Approves Procurement of Israeli PULS Rocket Artillery
Germany has approved a 65-million-euro ($68 million) purchase of an initial batch of five PULS rocket artillery systems for the German Army.
KNDS and Elbit Systems team up for EuroPULS next-generation rocket artillery system
KNDS and Elbit Systems have signed a Teaming Agreement for EuroPULS to address the growing needs of precision rocket artillery capabilities.
defence-industry.eu
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