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Kuznetsov basically isn't an operational carrier. Constantly followed at sea by a tug, her black clouds of smoke even under ideal circumstances tell a story of a power plant beyond repair and unable to be replaced.

All those old 80's ships are basically a layer of several mm of rust held together by several more mm of paint.

The new frigates seem perfectly good at doing the only real role Russia has for a navy - ASW and fishery patrol, plus some escort work for landing craft so long as the enemy doesn't have too many Harpoon/Neptun.
 
Well, the only armed Russian ship that got sunk by Neptuns is the Moskva.

The other ship that got "sunk" (virtually out of commission for good, but its hull managed to get tugged away despite being hit twice by harpoons...) was an unarmed tug.

Considering the amount of claims regarding the Essen, Makarov, Bykov, Bobrov, etc... being hit and sunk by Neptuns, it is indeed rather safe to assume recent ships in activity within the Russian navy are able to defend themselves rather reasonably.

As for the Kuz's power plant not being beyond repairs and unable to be replaced, perhaps you should warn the guys at Murmansk since they are currently working on "repairing and replacing it". Telling them it can't be done would save them some time.
 
Well, the only armed Russian ship that got sunk by Neptuns is the Moskva.

The other ship that got "sunk" (virtually out of commission for good, but its hull managed to get tugged away despite being hit twice by harpoons...) was an unarmed tug.

Considering the amount of claims regarding the Essen, Makarov, Bykov, Bobrov, etc... being hit and sunk by Neptuns, it is indeed rather safe to assume recent ships in activity within the Russian navy are able to defend themselves rather reasonably.

As for the Kuz's power plant not being beyond repairs and unable to be replaced, perhaps you should warn the guys at Murmansk since they are currently working on "repairing and replacing it". Telling them it can't be done would save them some time.
Thats a criminal use of the word 'only'. Are you letting the parents of all the 'missing but not in combat ops' crew know that its 'only' one ship that was lost??

Ukraine has done pretty well at being a PITA for the glorious Russian Navy, at a significantly lower cost that buying an actual Navy would have been.
 
Well, the only armed Russian ship that got sunk by Neptuns is the Moskva.

The other ship that got "sunk" (virtually out of commission for good, but its hull managed to get tugged away despite being hit twice by harpoons...) was an unarmed tug.

Considering the amount of claims regarding the Essen, Makarov, Bykov, Bobrov, etc... being hit and sunk by Neptuns, it is indeed rather safe to assume recent ships in activity within the Russian navy are able to defend themselves rather reasonably.

As for the Kuz's power plant not being beyond repairs and unable to be replaced, perhaps you should warn the guys at Murmansk since they are currently working on "repairing and replacing it". Telling them it can't be done would save them some time.

Kuznetsov's powerplant has been "repaired" multiple times since she was commissioned. They have never managed to get it operating properly. Nor will they this time. It's a patch and bodge job designed to keep it more or less afloat and able to move for the sake of prestige.

The other ships, I very much doubt they were subject to a proper Alpha Strike type attack. Two or three Harpoons or Neptuns does not a NATO style Alpha Strike make, more of a test to see if the crew are awake and not drunk. If they can survive a strike of 10+ missiles then I will be more impressed.
 
Kuznetsov basically isn't an operational carrier. Constantly followed at sea by a tug, her black clouds of smoke even under ideal circumstances tell a story of a power plant beyond repair and unable to be replaced.

All those old 80's ships are basically a layer of several mm of rust held together by several more mm of paint.

The new frigates seem perfectly good at doing the only real role Russia has for a navy - ASW and fishery patrol, plus some escort work for landing craft so long as the enemy doesn't have too many Harpoon/Neptun.
She runs, as does the 1891 steam trains at the Manchester Science Museum. But she's not going to arrive on time, nor run 4 trips per day. This is why, at least in the west, we scrap cars after 10 years, trains after 50 etc. its just easier to melt it down, and start from scratch, than plate over cracks and hope the inspector is drunk when he calls round for his bribe.
 
Thats a criminal use of the word 'only'. Are you letting the parents of all the 'missing but not in combat ops' crew know that its 'only' one ship that was lost??

Ukraine has done pretty well at being a PITA for the glorious Russian Navy, at a significantly lower cost that buying an actual Navy would have been.

Getting emotional about human losses won't change anything, aside from being out of topic.

And yes, only one combat ship got effectively sunk by AShM, since the reasons behind the Saratov going down are divided between TB2, Tochka-U and accidental fire (thus no AShM).
As I said, only one has been effectively sunk (Moskva) and another virtually sunk (Bekh).

Has the Ukrainian been a PITA to Russian navy? Absolutely.
Russia has lost quite a number of naval units in fact. But, then we have to consider what kind of unit and to what they were lost.

Most of the Russian recorded losses are riverines (Raptors) and small landing ships (Serna and Ondatra). Losses inflicted by either ATGM (Kornets) or TB2. Not by Neptunes.
Now, we could argue about how appropriate it would be to use a Neptune (all things considered, an advanced AShM, expensive and likely complicated to make in the current circumstances) on such small targets, namely the Raptors, Serna and Ondatra. Would it be worth it? Doubtful, since the same result can be, and has been, achieved by other, safer and cheaper, means.

To go back to the the Neptunes themselves, and their use against relevant surface units, it is not the lack of target that stopped Ukrainian from sinking anything.
We should remember the build up of Ropuchas LCS close to the Kherson peninsula at the beginning of the war for instance. Their sole escort being one Grigorovich class frigate.
Or the various sorties made by Pr22160 (that have virtually no counter-measure systems or even CIWS). Which, amusingly enough, the first and only claim of one of these being hit and sunk reportedly was by a salvo fired from a BM21.

But only the Moskva fell to these AShM.


Which could, and should, raise questions as to why is the kill count so low for a platform that is supposed to be an improved version of the Kh35.
Is the kill count low because the missiles got successfully intercepted? In other words, the missile works just fine, but so does the Russian CIWS.
Is the kill count low because the missiles missed their targets? In other words, the missile does not work that well.
Is the kill count low because the missiles were used parsimoniously? Low stocks to begin with? Stocks destroyed by Russian strikes? Launch platforms and viable launching sites too exposed?


And before gets jake gets an aneurysm reading my comment: no, nuancing the successes registered by Ukraine against the Russian navy is not being "RuSsIia StRonK".


Kuznetsov's powerplant has been "repaired" multiple times since she was commissioned. They have never managed to get it operating properly. Nor will they this time. It's a patch and bodge job designed to keep it more or less afloat and able to move for the sake of prestige.

I completely agree.

If Russia is that attached to the Kuznetsov, let them have her turn into a museum or something. Having her go through repeated, and unsuccessful "repairs" and "upgrades", is more akin to futile medical care than anything else. In addition to being hazardous to those employed to do these repairs/upgrades, the crew afterwards, and a financial blackhole.
 
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Russia recently unveiled its new "Pantsir-SM TBM" SAM system.

The TBM being a transport and combat vehicle and supposed to operate as part of other Pantsir SAM system.

There are no guns and no detection radar, which allowed to increase the ammunition of anti-aircraft missiles from 12 to 24.
It is described as a symbiosis between a combat and a transport-loading vehicle while partially performing combat work to defeat air targets.



Though I can understand the reasoning behind this variant, Syria having lost a few Pantsirs when they were waiting for reload, the TBM's goal is to address that problem by increasing the overall ammunition. But I frankly don't think this is a wise idea in terms of engineering, or anything all together at all for that matter, since it kind of is quite the gamble.

The Pantsir system has a very poor operational track-record to begin with, all things considered. Libya and Nagorno-Karabash have demonstrated its crippling weaknesses. Though one could nuance them by arguing the poor performances were due to the lack of training from the users. Who knows.
That being said, it seems the Pantsir-SM TBM will switch from 57E6 missiles to 9M337 Sosna-R (radar and laser guided supersonic (mach 2.6)), with 4 of these per tube. Thus bringing the total amount of missiles carried by the TBM up to 96.


On the one hand, 96 missiles for 1 carrier may sound ridiculously high. If the platform gets hit, the whole package goes up. With that comes the problem of range: 10km for the Sosna-R while the 57E6 had a range of 15km. And one thing the war in Ukraine, especially Snake Island, has shown is that many assets used by Ukraine managed to carry out their mission and return to base simply because they could remain out of range of Russia's AD.
But on the other hand, it kind of "solves" the supply problem. Assuming it does not get hit, the platform can, virtually, be used 96 times before having to be resupplied.

Is it a worthy trade off then? Getting rid of the guns and radar for an increased loadout in ammunition?
imho no. But that's just my opinion.
And, frankly, getting rid of the whole Pantsir all together would probably have been a better solution.
 
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Tula Design Bureau. A.G. Shipunova showed a detailed model of the new version of the Pantsir-SM-TBM air defense system. The new air defense system is made in the version of a transport-combat vehicle and received the prefix "TBM". In this version, the air defense system lost its cannon armament, but increased the arsenal of missiles to 24 pieces, in the old versions of the Pantsir- air defense system there were 12 missiles. The increase in the number of missiles is apparently due to the increased role of drones in modern wars and the emergence of swarms of combat drones in the near future. The air defense system is capable of not only storing and transporting missile weapons, but also carrying out combat work for missiles. The developers had to abandon the station for detecting air targets: in combat formations, the Patsir-SM-TBM will receive target designation from other vehicles in the battery or from command posts of a layered air defense system. The air defense system received small-sized anti-aircraft guided missiles against small drones and UAVs, there are four in total. In the maximum load option, the Pantsir-SM TBM air defense system will be able to fire a volley of 96 missiles. The air defense system received a new sighting station with a phased antenna array. Thanks to this, the system sees targets at a distance of up to 75 kilometers. Thus, the effective firing range of the complex is increased to 40 kilometers - twice as much as compared to Pantsir-S1.

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Getting emotional about human losses won't change anything, aside from being out of topic.

And yes, only one combat ship got effectively sunk by AShM, since the reasons behind the Saratov going down are divided between TB2, Tochka-U and accidental fire (thus no AShM).
As I said, only one has been effectively sunk (Moskva) and another virtually sunk (Bekh).

Has the Ukrainian been a PITA to Russian navy? Absolutely.
Russia has lost quite a number of naval units in fact. But, then we have to consider what kind of unit and to what they were lost.

Most of the Russian recorded losses are riverines (Raptors) and small landing ships (Serna and Ondatra). Losses inflicted by either ATGM (Kornets) or TB2. Not by Neptunes.
Now, we could argue about how appropriate it would be to use a Neptune (all things considered, an advanced AShM, expensive and likely complicated to make in the current circumstances) on such small targets, namely the Raptors, Serna and Ondatra. Would it be worth it? Doubtful, since the same result can be, and has been, achieved by other, safer and cheaper, means.

To go back to the the Neptunes themselves, and their use against relevant surface units, it is not the lack of target that stopped Ukrainian from sinking anything.
We should remember the build up of Ropuchas LCS close to the Kherson peninsula at the beginning of the war for instance. Their sole escort being one Grigorovich class frigate.
Or the various sorties made by Pr22160 (that have virtually no counter-measure systems or even CIWS). Which, amusingly enough, the first and only claim of one of these being hit and sunk reportedly was by a salvo fired from a BM21.

But only the Moskva fell to these AShM.


Which could, and should, raise questions as to why is the kill count so low for a platform that is supposed to be an improved version of the Kh35.
Is the kill count low because the missiles got successfully intercepted? In other words, the missile works just fine, but so does the Russian CIWS.
Is the kill count low because the missiles missed their targets? In other words, the missile does not work that well.
Is the kill count low because the missiles were used parsimoniously? Low stocks to begin with? Stocks destroyed by Russian strikes? Launch platforms and viable launching sites too exposed?


And before gets jake gets an aneurysm reading my comment: no, nuancing the successes registered by Ukraine against the Russian navy is not being "RuSsIia StRonK".




I completely agree.

If Russia is that attached to the Kuznetsov, let them have her turn into a museum or something. Having her go through repeated, and unsuccessful "repairs" and "upgrades", is more akin to futile medical care than anything else. In addition to being hazardous to those employed to do these repairs/upgrades, the crew afterwards, and a financial blackhole.
There is not a single photo or video that shows traces of a missile strike, this is an ordinary fire, the fire extinguishing system was not replaced on the cruiser in time. Recently, the central media of Ukraine published a video where Armenian tanks were passed off as Russian. For the future, about the Ukrainian media, an adviser to the President of Ukraine said the following: “One of the central ideas of Ukraine is to lie to yourself and others as much as possible.” Because if the truth is suddenly revealed, then there will be no country. In this case, "everything will collapse." The video is on youtube
 
There is not a single photo or video that shows traces of a missile strike, this is an ordinary fire, the fire extinguishing system was not replaced on the cruiser in time. Recently, the central media of Ukraine published a video where Armenian tanks were passed off as Russian. For the future, about the Ukrainian media, an adviser to the President of Ukraine said the following: “One of the central ideas of Ukraine is to lie to yourself and others as much as possible.” Because if the truth is suddenly revealed, then there will be no country. In this case, "everything will collapse." The video is on youtube

Hopefully sonar and underwater examination can be conducted.

But questions can reasonably be asked as to what may/might have cause the Moskva to sink. Not that a Neptune couldn't have, mind you, but simply because, since the war started, there has been not one single footage of the Neptune. Either in action, standby, transit or simply in exhibit.
No pictures or videos (old or new) of the mobile launch platforms, no pictures or videos (old or new) of missiles being launched.
 
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A "fire breaking out" on a ship with a competent crew is rather unlikely to sink it. There has to be a combination of a lack of crew, a lack of training, safety procedures bypassed and a giant stack of oily rags left somewhere.

The US LHD that was written off recently had the lack of crew, lots of flamable materials due to her refit and fire doors open.

It might salve some egos to go "our crew was incompetent and the ship caught fire" but it doesn't really do much more than that.
 

Now delayed till 2027......................... the perfume now smells like desperation not checkmate

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More 'pride' for Putin ?
 
The US LHD that was written off recently had the lack of crew, lots of flamable materials due to her refit and fire doors open.

Hasn't it been ruled as a criminal act though?
 
Hopefully sonar and underwater examination can be conducted.

But questions can reasonably be asked as to what may/might have cause the Moskva to sink. Not that a Neptune couldn't have, mind you, but simply because, since the war started, there has been not one single footage of the Neptune. Either in action, standby, transit or simply in exhibit.
No pictures or videos (old or new) of the mobile launch platforms, no pictures or videos (old or new) of missiles being launched.
So it’s like Bigfoot then?
 
Hasn't it been ruled as a criminal act though?

Yeah I gather he started the fire so he'd have an excuse not to work and things... well things got a little out of hand. Still nothing 20 years of hard labour won't fix (for him).
 
So it’s like Bigfoot then?

Hey!
Bigfoot exists!

Don't you go disrespecting him.

But apart from that, yes. There are no footage, at all, of Neptune AShM being fired since the war started.
Though we got footage of basically all of the weapon systems used by Ukraine: be them domestic weapon systems or foreign ones (even the Harpoon, Brimstone and Starstreak have been documented).
For instance: we know javelins have been used. We have seen them in the field, being in the hands of Ukrainian soldiers, being fired at targets, and targets being destroyed by it. Same for NLAW, Stinger, etc...
Thus we can say: these have been used because *point at all the factual instances that corroborate the claim*.

But, as I said: it is not the case for the Neptune. No Neptune, either in action, standby, transit or simply in exhibit, has been documented.

Does not mean it has not been used. Simply: no verifiable reference of it being used.

Simple as.
 
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Russia uses guns against PAX STUPOR drones in Ukraine. To combat the drones, the allied forces of the Russian military began to use guns against the STUPOR drones in Ukraine. The complex against drones PARS "STUPOR" emits electromagnetic impulses and suppresses the control channels of drones. To neutralize the drone, you need to press and hold the button on the weapon, the drone loses contact with the operator and, depending on the drone model, can smoothly land, hover, or return to the operator. Weapons against drones operate at ranges up to 1500 meters and suppress the reception of signals from all types of navigation satellites. The charge of the weapon is enough for 4 hours and it is available for free sale, the price is about 10 thousand dollars.

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The Russian military used the latest Izdeliye-305E missile in Ukraine. On the published footage, you can see how the rocket flies up to the window of the building. The Russian Izdelie-305E air-to-surface missile is designed to equip modernized versions of Russian Ka-52M and Mi-28NM helicopters and some aircraft. The 305E missile can be used at a range of up to 14.5 kilometers, so it surpasses the American AGM-114 "Hellfire" missile, which has a range of no more than 10 km. The missile has a high-precision inertial on-board navigation system and is equipped with a homing head, it implements the "fire and forget" principle. Rocket weight 105 kg, length 1945 mm, body diameter 200mm.

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