Q Answered Doesn't the recent iranian missile look like a Russian BUK to you too ?

[FoxBat]

the supposed "3rd khordad" looks just like the Russian BUK only on a different launcher vehicle ..

and both were responsible for bringing down long altitude targets on a short ground distance , the russian buk shot down the malaysian airliner in ukraine and this missile shot down the american drone .

 

[north44]

It's interesting how US/NATO tried to give a name to anything that was/is Soviet/Russian manufactured while dismissing local productions of other countries like “a kind of improved SA-7” or such descriptions.

After years of doing the same with Chinese defense industry, US/NATO is trying to catch up, but overall the whole concept of classifying hostile systems with own numbering seems fading away with the new modular concepts which are used everywhere.

Overall it seems Iran moved quite far in developing local weapon systems, after all we are talking about technologies which are around for tens of years. They did start from what they had (F-5 fighter jets, S-75 missile complexes, RIM-66 naval SAMs and so on…). It’s quite logic to do that, don’t you think? But dismissing their local industry as “a copy of xyz” seems downplaying their local defense industry achievements.

Iranians put a lot of efforts in air defense and this choice seems pretty logic to me. They copied and then developed a number of missiles, calling them Sayyad-1,2,3… and integrated them in different solutions with existing and newly developed systems. If I was them, I would have done exactly the same.

..hey after all we were told 70ies and 80ies MANPADS could no longer work after their battery life passed its shelf life, till someone rigged them to a car battery in a local workshop and successfully used them… How would you classify that? Toyota SA-7 HiLux system?

 

[Modular]

The "3rd Khordad" is just the Tracker-Erector-Launcher system, and to my knowledge it can actually carry a number of different missiles.
According to the Iranians the UAV was shot down by a "Sayyad SD2C" missile, some cite it as a "Sayyad 3", Both are Structurally based upon RIM-66 Standard missiles provided to Iran prior to the 1979 revolution.

Iran also produces missiles based upon the Soviet/Russian Kub and Buk Missiles (called "Taer") that are reportedly launch-able from the Ra'ad (Of which the 3rd Khordad system is based upon), and I am pretty sure those are the ones displayed in most media images of Ra'ad/Khordad systems.

Ex: Labeling (Black) on the vehicle reads "Ra'ad"
Labeling on the missile (White, tip side) Reads "Taer 2"
In Persian (Arabic lettering)

As north44 mentioned, Iranian weapons developments are generally fast and wide, and hard to follow upon, yet very interesting in my opinion.

 

[FoxBat]

i don't think the iranian SAM deployment is that interesting .. tbh

iran just like russia fires a salvo of missiles .

s-300 and its iranian copies , which are longer in range and travel more horizontally towards the target .

and when the target is over their head , they fire the BUK and TOR like missiles , which are short ranged and travel more vertically upwards .

that's not much complicated if i'm asked .

 

[FoxBat]

The "3rd Khordad" is just the Tracker-Erector-Launcher system, and to my knowledge it can actually carry a number of different missiles.
According to the Iranians the UAV was shot down by a "Sayyad SD2C" missile, some cite it as a "Sayyad 3", Both are Structurally based upon RIM-66 Standard missiles provided to Iran prior to the 1979 revolution.

Iran also produces missiles based upon the Soviet/Russian Kub and Buk Missiles (called "Taer") that are reportedly launch-able from the Ra'ad (Of which the 3rd Khordad system is based upon), and I am pretty sure those are the ones displayed in most media images of Ra'ad/Khordad systems.


View attachment 183388
Ex: Labeling (Black) on the vehicle reads "Ra'ad"
Labeling on the missile (White, tip side) Reads "Taer 2"
In Persian (Arabic lettering)

As north44 mentioned, Iranian weapons developments are generally fast and wide, and hard to follow upon, yet very interesting in my opinion.

yes

in persian

Raed is lightning which could be a hint at the missiles short distance and vertical flight path

and Taer is arabic for anything that flies , which might be a hint at the old american copy / reverse engineer

But i don't see how that's interesting . like iran carries scud-b surface to surface missiles , only instead of the original launcher vehicle , on a mercedes benz truck or more recently on a chinese truck

and they have hardly any improved avionics or flight systems , as proved in yemen or in iran's failed satellite launch attempt .

 

[FoxBat]

It's interesting how US/NATO tried to give a name to anything that was/is Soviet/Russian manufactured while dismissing local productions of other countries like “a kind of improved SA-7” or such descriptions.

After years of doing the same with Chinese defense industry, US/NATO is trying to catch up, but overall the whole concept of classifying hostile systems with own numbering seems fading away with the new modular concepts which are used everywhere.

Overall it seems Iran moved quite far in developing local weapon systems, after all we are talking about technologies which are around for tens of years. They did start from what they had (F-5 fighter jets, S-75 missile complexes, RIM-66 naval SAMs and so on…). It’s quite logic to do that, don’t you think? But dismissing their local industry as “a copy of xyz” seems downplaying their local defense industry achievements.

Iranians put a lot of efforts in air defense and this choice seems pretty logic to me. They copied and then developed a number of missiles, calling them Sayyad-1,2,3… and integrated them in different solutions with existing and newly developed systems. If I was them, I would have done exactly the same.

..hey after all we were told 70ies and 80ies MANPADS could no longer work after their battery life passed its shelf life, till someone rigged them to a car battery in a local workshop and successfully used them… How would you classify that? Toyota SA-7 HiLux system?

yes

but i'm neither soviet nor NATO

i'm iranian myself

and i ask this question cause it seems americans are sometimes willing to amplify iran's state propaganda , with their missiles and their supposed indigenous arabic names .

 

[Modular]

I understand that you don't share my interest in Iranian recreation of western and soviet systems

My main point was, that according to Iranian citations in the media, the missile that shot the drone down was a Sayyad 2/3 generally based upon the American Standard missile, and not the Taer based upon the Buk.

 

[Kriva]

and they have hardly any improved avionics or flight systems , as proved in yemen or in iran's failed satellite launch attempt .

I doubt that you have access to classified information to make such statements.

 

[Modular]

Well, Even if Iran is just replicating old Westren and Soviet systems (I personally think that the public data still suggests some improvements and advancements are being made), I find it interesting how they achieved production capabilities of complex systems in 40 years, and under severe sanctions in the last ~15.

I mean, Iran has reached weapon production capabilities matched only by Israel and Turkey in the middle east, in my opinion at least, and in much harder conditions than it's rivals in the economic and material sense.

 

[FoxBat]

This is a Russian BUK M2 missile system

And this is the indegenous "3rd of Khrodad" ...

Do you really believe they would mount the reproduction of American RIMM missile on a Russian launcher ??

@the guy who suggested this

 

[north44]

yes

but i'm neither soviet nor NATO

i'm iranian myself

and i ask this question cause it seems americans are sometimes willing to amplify iran's state propaganda , with their missiles and their supposed indigenous arabic names .

I think it's quite normal that armaments meant to oppose a similar if not the same enemy tend to be similar. The last, but not the least reason would be that before starting the development you want to take a look at "how did those other people do it?" If I was in charge that would be my #1 question to my project managers!

At the end of the day, all the Eurocanards fighters looked very similar. Eurofighter, JAS-39, Rafale... All developed in the same period with broadly the same task. The F-35 shape started from the F-22. The Israeli David's Sling air defense system resembles a Patriot.
Nowadays one cannot negate that Chinese Wing Loong UAV really looks like a MQ-9. The FC-31 resembles in its shape a F-22+F-35. Years before, the K-13 air to air missile, born as a precise copy of a Sidewinder, moved ahead in its own versions and probably gave birth the anything IR guided that followed in the Soviet Union. The air intakes of the third generation of Soviet fighter jets, like the MiG-23 and the MiG-25 are sided resembling those of the F-4. Why not?

Yes it is similar, but at the end of the day it is meant for the same mission. So, again, why not?

BTW, in recent years, the UAVs were portrayed as the ultimate warfighting tool, like they are an extremely advanced war tool. Not exactly. They are slow, they fly high, they don't even try to run or outmatch any adversary. They are made for peacetime or asymmetrical scenarios. Bringing down a RQ-4 is not exactly the most difficult aerial warfare stunt of the second decade of the 21st century.

 

[Modular]

This is a Russian BUK M2 missile system

View attachment 183716


And this is the indegenous "3rd of Khrodad" ...


View attachment 183717




Do you really believe they would mount the reproduction of American RIMM missile on a Russian launcher ??

@the guy who suggested this

Well, the transporter and radar unit look very similar (though not identical) to the BUK M2.
But note that the missile erectors themselves are different and look somewhat like an updside-down RIM-66 launchers to me.

Anyways, I think that it's likely that Iranians made changes to the systems which allow modularity for missiles, so I do believe that it's possible that a reproduction of an American missile would be mounted on a reproduction of a Russian system, made in Iran.
That's the whole beauty of it, if you ask me

 

[FoxBat]

The Iranian Raad (“Thunder”) air defense system is an Iranian copy of the Russian Buk medium-range self-propelled surface-to-air missile system which first appeared in a 2012 parade. The Buk gained international notoriety in 2014 when a system from the Russian Army’s 53rd Air Defense Brigade smuggled into eastern Ukraine shot down Malaysian Airlines flight MH17, killing all 298 onboard.

A War Begins? How Iran Shot Down a U.S. RQ-4N Surveillance Drone

What you are dying to know.

nationalinterest.org

 

[FoxBat]

sounds to me like the IRI are trying too hard to skew themselves in the bum

they managed an 8 year war in the 1980s with american military hardware

russian hardware are impossible to maintain so without the russian support

 

[Bombardier]

Are we happy that this question can be closed now or would you like me to move this thread into a better location for further discussion?

 

[FoxBat]

View attachment 183717

Turns out this is the chinese copy of the Russian BUK with a chinese vehicle / launcher. misinformation on my part .. sorry

 

[Bombardier]

Thread closed and Answered Thank you @FoxBat