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Armenia withdraws ambassador from Israel over Azerbaijan arms deal

Armenia said on Thursday it had recalled its ambassador to Israel for consultations over Israeli arms sales to Azerbaijan.

Azerbaijan has acknowledged using Israeli-made weapons in its fighting with ethnic Armenian forces around Nagorno-Karabakh, where heavy clashes this week have drawn international calls for an immediate ceasefire.

"(We) have one of the strongest (drone) fleets in the region. And among them we have Israeli ones, we have other drones as well, but Israeli drones especially, including reconnaissance and attack drones, and kamikaze 'Harop' drones, (which) have proved itself very effective," Hajayev said.

Israel's Foreign Ministry said it regretted Armenia's decision to recall its ambassador for consultations. "Israel attaches importance to our relations with Armenia and in this context sees the Armenian Embassy in Israel as an important tool for promoting them for the benefit of both peoples," the Foreign Ministry said.
 
Musashi said:
If the Azeris overbid, Russia will take some action. The Russian MoD statemement, published by @morris, is pretty stronK.

The LORA is the system Poland planned to buy in Israel a few years ago. It looks like it would be a big waste of money, as Russia has got much newer versions of the S-300 comparing to Armenia to deal with it.
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I'm on a Russian website right now. No confirmation that ballistic missiles were used. Recon drone was shot down. Armenia wants to lob Iskanders at Azerbajan and is looking for a Russian blessing.
 
berkut76 said:
I'm on a Russian website right now. No confirmation that ballistic missiles were used. Recon drone was shot down. Armenia wants to lob Iskanders at Azerbajan and is looking for a Russian blessing.
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The Polish website, quoted by me before, says Azerbaijan has S-300s, Tor-M2s and Israeli Barak-8s at their disposal to counter ballistic missiles.

You know Russians, we can safely assume that they engineered Iskanders in order not to be destroyed by Russian AD systems, particularly the export versions. Thus, we can take the S-300s and the Tors out of the equation ;)

The only threat against the Armenian Iskanders could be the Israeli Barak-8s:
en.wikipedia.org

Barak 8 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
The Polish website reported Azerbaijan having bought "at least one battalion" of them.

This war is a blessing for Russia and Israel. Both of them are quick learners, so they will make some changes in their equipment afterwards.
Moreover, a lot of countries will make military equipment orders in them.
 
Musashi said:
The video looks legit to me, as the critical body parts are blurred. What really shocked me is the fact that these Azeri soldiers lie in clusters as if they were killed during the WW1.
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lt seemed me POW execution . l didint see guns and extra magazines on vests.
 
Israeli drones in Azerbaijan raise questions on use in the battlefield

Much of this drone warfare takes place in the shadows. This is because Israeli drone manufacturers often don’t release details about their sales, and because countries don’t reveal details about all their drone use. That is because these weapons systems are seen as both clandestine and also controversial. It is not clear why drones are more controversial than using a manned aircraft for surveillance or using a cruise missile against a target. However, the number of articles implying that there is something controversial about their use make countries and makers of drones reticent to discuss them. That doesn’t mean they don’t show off their capabilities.

Israel’s role in arming Azerbaijan has several dilemmas associated with it. Because of the controversies from 2016 and 2017, the overall picture of Israel-Azerbaijan relations has sometimes been clouded by foreign media reports. However, interviews indicate Azerbaijan is appreciative of Israel’s technology and drones. Having Israeli and Turkish drones operated by the same country is interesting because Ankara’s ruling party has become very hostile to Israel in the last years. It is unclear if there is competition for this drone market since the Bayraktar’s capabilities are very different from the line of Israeli drones Azerbaijan reportedly has. The Bayraktar is supposed to be an Turkish version of the US Predator. If it is similar at all to an Israeli drone it is more like the IAI Searcher series. But the Bayraktar is an armed drone. Israel officials do not have or sell armed drones, which means drones that carry missiles or bombs. Israel does manufacture loitering munitions. Some of these munitions are seen as more similar to anti-tank guided missiles, than a drone.

Questions remain from the recent conflicts between Azerbaijan and Armenia about whether the Israeli systems are effective. Videos appear to show they are. However much of the conflicts are shrouded in mystery about which video is from the camera of which munition. Only in the rare case, mentioned at the start of this article, does one drone happen to catch a second drone on film, and a more complex picture emerges as to how these systems work together. That complex picture may offer lessons for militaries on the best way to use multiple layers of drones, including surveillance drones, and armed drones and loitering munitions.
 
This developing "drone war" is quite interesting. I look for both sides to field test pieces from a variety of sources. Beta testing, if you will - rather like Hitler's Condor Legion in Spain ca. 1936. The tag phrase, "kamikaze drones" brings up a number of interesting vids like this one.

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Azeri forces take Armenian positions

Posting a link to a video. Youtube might remove soon. Very graphic. Lots of bodies.

Looks like one sided encounter with Azerbaijani special forces team capturing Armenian fortified position dispatching with troops inside (some apparently were shot in their beds) and then ambushing rapid response or reinforcement which were traveling in a couple of trucks. The attacking side achieved a total element of surprise. There is no evidence in the video that the Armenian troops were able to fire in response.
 
musti said:
lt seemed me POW execution . l didint see guns and extra magazines on vests.
Click to expand...

There are some but not many
760c4bc73.webp


Looks more like an ambush to me, however there are not much photo/video evidence of prisoners taken so I inclined to believe that both sides indulge in their killing.
 
berkut76 said:
Armenia withdraws ambassador from Israel over Azerbaijan arms deal

Armenia said on Thursday it had recalled its ambassador to Israel for consultations over Israeli arms sales to Azerbaijan.

Azerbaijan has acknowledged using Israeli-made weapons in its fighting with ethnic Armenian forces around Nagorno-Karabakh, where heavy clashes this week have drawn international calls for an immediate ceasefire.

"(We) have one of the strongest (drone) fleets in the region. And among them we have Israeli ones, we have other drones as well, but Israeli drones especially, including reconnaissance and attack drones, and kamikaze 'Harop' drones, (which) have proved itself very effective," Hajayev said.

Israel's Foreign Ministry said it regretted Armenia's decision to recall its ambassador for consultations. "Israel attaches importance to our relations with Armenia and in this context sees the Armenian Embassy in Israel as an important tool for promoting them for the benefit of both peoples," the Foreign Ministry said.
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Both of these peoples are genocide victims, it is shame that they have bad blood between them now :(
 
morris said:
Both of these peoples are genocide victims, it is shame that they have bad blood between them now :(
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I suspect this goes back to the Tsarist and Soviet days. Armenians are Christians and very under Russian protection so to speak. Jews were on much better terms with Muslims in that area than Christians. So, it's not just about the money, but deep cultural connections between the Jews and the Azeris. same by the way goes for Jewish - Tatar relations.
 
Also Azebaijan with its long borders (land and sea) with Iran is interesting for Israel. Armenia had better relations with Iran then Azerbaijan, but now in this conflicts it seems that Iran is starting to cease support for Armenia.
Local Azer population in Iran ( up to 20 or 30% of Iran population are Azers) started riots yesterday in several Iran towns.
Armenians fighting well but they are very isolated and without any support.
 
morris said:
There are some but not many


Looks more like an ambush to me, however there are not much photo/video evidence of prisoners taken so I inclined to believe that both sides indulge in their killing.
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They claim that 32 Azers are on that video. Weapons were probably taken before filming, apparently they were ambushed. Azerbaijan btw didnt relase any official statement about losses they have sufferred.

EDIT> Regarding AD engagement last night, it still is not 100% sure that S 300 or some other systems were used.
 
Very dramatic footage
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Azerbaijani helicopter damaged

Another Azeri helicopter hit by the Azerbaijani Defense Army
 
I think that was part of longer video on AN 2 (unmaned and probably filled with explosive) shooting down. At least 5/6 AN2 were destroyed but Azers didn't expected to come back any way so that is hardly a loss for them.
 
Armenian volunteers gather at a recruiting centre near Hadrut to receive equipment before departing for the frontlines in Nagorno-Karabakh, September 29, 2020 | Credit: AP Photo/
86p1yl3soiq51.jpg
 
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