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same as climate data - if it is before a date that shows warming it seems not to get used
there are a lot of people farming the rest if us for tax in relation to all these carbon credits
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Politics Climate Hysteria Debunked Yet Again ....
- Thread starter colin traveller
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there are a lot of people farming the rest if us for tax in relation to all these carbon credits
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Boris Johnson pledges up to £1bn for scientists tackling climate change
The fund, named after a British physicist, will support scientists who are testing new technology for developing countries.
M
Mordoror
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Swiss group plans farewell ceremony for 'dead’ Pizol glacier
After a recent 'funeral' in Iceland to mark the virtual disappearance of the country’s Okjökull glacier because of climate change, groups in Switzerland are now planning a similar event in the Alps to mark the first-ever death of a Swiss glacier.
M
Mordoror
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A sliver of the atmosphere is about to cause big problems on Earth
That percentage of CO2 isn't as small as you think.
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Swiss group plans farewell ceremony for 'dead’ Pizol glacier
After a recent 'funeral' in Iceland to mark the virtual disappearance of the country’s Okjökull glacier because of climate change, groups in Switzerland are now planning a similar event in the Alps to mark the first-ever death of a Swiss glacier.www.thelocal.ch
And that's just ridiculous. The glacier isn't "dead", it's melted away. And it would have melted away even without human interference, just more slowly.
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Mordoror
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I agree. The vocabulary used is of poor choice.
That, on the other hand is disputable. Would have it melted away, would have been it nurtured by temperatures that would have been slower than today or would have been it maintained as it was, hard to tell (there are ancient glaciers more than 20 000 y old)
What is sure is that a bunch of glaciers are melting right now at an accelerated pace
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Why would it be disputable? The existence of ice on this planet is a geological anomaly. Only the polar regions themselves offer conditions naturally conducive to low temperatures (due to a lack of solar exposure).
More than 90% of all glaciers that have ever existed disappeared long before the age of industrialization, almost 80% even disappeared before the anthropocene. I myself dwell in a valley that used to be covered by a glacier until about 5,000 years ago.
A region so far down south as the Alpine Belt wouldn't have ever been covered in ice if it wasn't for the so called Ice Age. (cont'd)
Yes. Even though the melting of the glaciers in Switzerland has somewhat lessened as of late, and a couple of individual glaciers even grew due to two heavy winters.
Well, the decisive question that is never asked nor given: What does it matter? Please bear with me here.
Strictly speaking, those glaciers are only important as reservoirs of drinkable water. They do not serve any other purpose. Which, as I put to you, begs the question: Why aren't we prepared to deal with their disappearance? For they're invariably going to disappear, and would've had done so even without human interference.
Now, I'm certainly not advocating an attitude of "après moi, le déluge". There's plenty of reasons to fight climate change where it can be fought.
And yet it strikes me as odd we're so focused on trying to stop the unstoppable instead of spending any thoughts whatsoever on how to mitigate its consequences. For instance, why are we so hell-bent on trying to save a bunch of geologically untenable islands (don't even get me started on that "act now or swim later" nonsense courtesy of Greta).
The sea levels are rising naturally since we're in the process of leaving the pleistocene glaciation; all we've done is speed up the process. And yet, one could walk from France to England dry-shod perhaps as little as 9,000 years ago.
The Maledives, for example, would've become submerged anyway. So why don't we use our wealth trying to either raise them (which is actually possible) or finance the resettlement of their inhabitants instead of continuing to pour money into schemes that have showed little effect so far?
The point I'm (incompetently) trying to make here is this:
It seems to me the primary reason behind the phenomenon of climate change denial is the abscence of any open-ended debate about what it is we want to achieve.
We live in democracies, and such being the case you do not get to force me to accept your solutions only on the grounds that the clock is ticking. I'd be perfectly entitled to the opinion that my taxes shouldn't be used to build wind energy farms, but give out free air conditioners to every household.
Secondly, it seems to me the primary motivation of the average climate-change activist is an unduly romantic idea of nature. That Greta Thunberg? Even the worst-case scenario for her home country of Sweden for the intermediate-term future is a climate roughly equal to Germany's current climate.
I'd tell Greta that, despite all my bitching about the hot summers we've been getting, the climate here is nothing to be fearful of. The point being, that broad and her minions are driven by – well, partially by human longing for the apocalypse (it gives purpose) – the idea everything needs to stay as it is. But that's not the default on this planet.
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Mordoror
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I wrote disputable for the sake of accuracy. As i said there are glaciers 20000y old, others 5000y old, some dating from the last glaciation. I dont know the balance situation of this specific one but usually high altitude glaciers are the oldest. Maybe it would have held a few more thousand years.
However, in absolute terms you are correct, at one moment or another of geological future time, it would have melted anyway.
But it could have been in 20000 more years.
Now i agree to some extend to your second post part.
However i see several issues that explain why we are unprepared
1-denial
Seen enough including on this board ala "but it's cold at home "so dont speak of CC
2-disregard ala "i dont care about Amazon forest, pacific islands et al"
3-rich world view. A glacier melting in Switzerland is only symbolic and wont impact swiss a lot. The same in the Andes will cut water supply of million of people but....see point 2.
4-incapacity of projection. It is difficult for a lot of people to connect the dots as they are focused on their little home, forgetting that Earth is a cruise ships with connected desks.Disasters somewhere will however impact even rich world countries at least under a migrants stream...and probably with few other means.
5-the pace of change is quick, quicker than anything seen before anthropocene (except the KT impact) But it is still too slow and too dispersed worldwide to have people get the memo. When(if) in 10-20y there are every year 3 or 4 heatwaves like the one we had this year and that appear more and more and more common, people will say "we should have done something". Until then, ie until an unbearable point, there wont be a lit of things done.
However, in absolute terms you are correct, at one moment or another of geological future time, it would have melted anyway.
But it could have been in 20000 more years.
Now i agree to some extend to your second post part.
However i see several issues that explain why we are unprepared
1-denial
Seen enough including on this board ala "but it's cold at home "so dont speak of CC
2-disregard ala "i dont care about Amazon forest, pacific islands et al"
3-rich world view. A glacier melting in Switzerland is only symbolic and wont impact swiss a lot. The same in the Andes will cut water supply of million of people but....see point 2.
4-incapacity of projection. It is difficult for a lot of people to connect the dots as they are focused on their little home, forgetting that Earth is a cruise ships with connected desks.Disasters somewhere will however impact even rich world countries at least under a migrants stream...and probably with few other means.
5-the pace of change is quick, quicker than anything seen before anthropocene (except the KT impact) But it is still too slow and too dispersed worldwide to have people get the memo. When(if) in 10-20y there are every year 3 or 4 heatwaves like the one we had this year and that appear more and more and more common, people will say "we should have done something". Until then, ie until an unbearable point, there wont be a lit of things done.
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what was wrong with the 'heat' wave this year?
In the UK it was the wettest summer for years............ we had a few warm days
No hosepipe bans - flooding and a dam nearly failed due to the rainfall
All depends where the gulf stream settles over Europe in the summer
to be honest I could do with a mild winter
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M
Mordoror
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What i was saying above : see point 1- denial "but it was not so hot here"
Only your corner of the UK may have been spared and if you had followed the news, there were 3 waves of abnormal high temps, one very early (20 of June,) on end of July and one early September that has just ended (with some area getting temperature 5 to 8°C above seasonal temps)
All the rest of continental Europe was hit, especially in June and July with temperature above 30°C up in Norway to 36-38 at mid Europe and up to 45 in the Meditteranean area.
When i seen heat adapted plants fry on foot, i ask myself if something is not going wrong.
And this had nothing to do with Gulf Stream
2019 European heatwaves - Wikipedia
2019 European heatwaves - Wikipedia
Ok with a mild winter if it doesn't turn into a flood winter like it does here for few years now....
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Predicting a colder than average winter here this year. Just got back from 10 days in Scotland. They could use a little global warming.
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Same here - looks like it will pull in weather from Siberia again
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I wish you people would stop insulting your intelligence and that of others by stooping to a level that rivals that of Greta Thunberg.
One cold winter or one mild summer means exactly naught. Climate is the planet's weather of many years, not the weather of one year in one region.
Many environmentalists don't know the difference either, but since you'd like to judge them you should surely know better.
Predicting a colder than average winter here this year. Just got back from 10 days in Scotland. They could use a little global warming.
Let's not forget also that Thunberg has Asperger's, a mild form of autism. Doesn't mean she's mentally unable to know of what she speaks, but she's emotionally susceptible to deceit at the hands of others. On that note, it's a miracle to me no one has reported her parents to the police yet. That kid is clearly mortally afraid of an apocalypse that's not coming even if all predictions turn out to be true. Climate change is going to make life on this planet a little less convenient; it's not going to end life. What her parents have done to her amounts to psycho terror.
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hey we cannot get that low.............
Lets put it this way - I used to live in the very nice valley below where I live now - house was wonderful but next to the river. We moved up here - which is virtually the highest point around because it is 5 degrees cooler than where we were.
We have been here nearly 25 years - old house has flooded twice - Global raining
Where we are the light is great - the air is clean and it is still 5 degrees cooler
I grow a lot of high altitude alpines so they do a lot better up here
Winter is winter - summer is summer - but in 25 years there is no noticeable change
I could do with a little warmer and a little less wet in winter (please) and a little less wet in summer during the day
As you cannot predict accurately weather more than about 3 days in advance or climate - then come back to me when you can as I would like to know what next summer is going to be like as I have about 50m cube of concrete to lay and I would like a few weeks of 20-25 degrees with light rain misting overnight
what does concern me this year is that some of the plants that normally flower end Oct/through November (before they are covered in snow in the wild) are in flower now - this indicates to me that we are in for a bad winter
Sad thing she is a tool of the extreme left - I do really worry for her to be honest as she will be thrown aside
The OH commented she is a bit of a Joan of Arc - and will probably end up the same way
I have worked with programmers who have asperger's in the past - and sometimes they can be very unpredictable - especially when put under tremendous stress
I predict this is not going to end well
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All I did was repeat what the Farmers Almanac said. Can we not have a civil discussion about the upcoming winter without someone coming completely unhinged?? Hang on to your keyboard Muck, not sure if you can handle this: Eric has been an ER Doc for a long time and a Jazz saxophonist. Here's his prediction for a cold winter.
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Mate, I did read Trump's tweet back in the day, and you've recycled it very often ever since.
@BCNTM
Oh, it will end very well for her. I'm sure she'll be PM of Sweden before she hits thirty. Even though Sweden voted like 49% right / center-right in 2018, so you might be forgiven to think they're on a road to recovery. But the power of the media is not to be underestimated. And unfortunately, even the few reputable right-wing sources left play right along. I don't f***ing get it. How do they not manage to treat that damned broad as what she is: a clueless child. Just don't talk about her, don't give her credibility by taking her seriously as a political opponent.
@BCNTM
Oh, it will end very well for her. I'm sure she'll be PM of Sweden before she hits thirty. Even though Sweden voted like 49% right / center-right in 2018, so you might be forgiven to think they're on a road to recovery. But the power of the media is not to be underestimated. And unfortunately, even the few reputable right-wing sources left play right along. I don't f***ing get it. How do they not manage to treat that damned broad as what she is: a clueless child. Just don't talk about her, don't give her credibility by taking her seriously as a political opponent.
