# Help for veterens of the bushwar suffering with PTSD



## 74846544KV (Jan 30, 2008)

Hi all, let me try it this way. Seems like i need to go and do a course to figure out how to use this site!

Im a child of the bushwar in the then South West Africa. I lost my dad in ops Yahoo in 82. He worked very closely with the 61 Mech.

As a gesture of remberance to my parents ive started a blog. Its called "We will never forget". The blog is now 1 yr old and im in a bit of a jam with it, i feel like i can go much futher with it, but i want it to have a reason other than to be there 4 those who dont know much aobut the war to go and read up on it. 

Ive had contact with many guys thru the blog, and have come to realise how many of the men that was on the border r still stuggeling with the ghosts of what they have encountered as boys. My plan is thus: I want to find ppl who can help this guys online. PROFESSIONALS. Not just any1, i want to know if any of u mite be able to help me find pshiciatrists who would help these guys with the problems they have 2day ONLINE!

I have find that men would much rather talk about their problems to a faceless person online than to go and sit and look sum1 in the eye and try to deal with whats eating at them.

If any of u can help me with this it would be highly appreciated.


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## PanzerBob (Jan 31, 2008)

Good day, Riana

welc.Welcome aboard, I must make this short, I'm pressed for time at the moment. I found what I've seen interesting on several levels. I too put up with PTSD and as a result of service in Africa.  I will get back to you on this soon when I can give what I have say the proper time.

"til then Cheers, Bob sal;


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## 74846544KV (Jan 31, 2008)

PanzerBob said:


> Good day, Riana
> 
> welc.Welcome aboard, I must make this short, I'm pressed for time at the moment. I found what I've seen interesting on several levels. I too put up with PTSD and as a result of service in Africa.  I will get back to you on this soon when I can give what I have say the proper time.
> 
> "til then Cheers, Bob sal;



Thanks Bob, really looking 4ward to hear from u. ive been in the same boat, thats why i know that there is help out there 4 the guys. And i want to help in any way i can.


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## 03Fox2/1 (Jan 31, 2008)

Riana,
  I am one of those that really doesn't want to talk to anyone, anywhere about what bugs me. I was brought up in another time when this was seen as a sign of weakness. I have grown up though and I've learned over the years that I am not only my own best friend, I am also my own worst enemy. I'm too proud and too independent for my own good but these same deficits have guided me pretty well most of my adult life. So when I eventually decided to come to this site, a site which is unusually respectful and dignified for cyberspace, because of Bombers close supervision and guidance, I had good intentions. As you say, under the guise and security of anonymity, I thought it would allow me to open up about my own demons and ghosts that haunt me and possibly find some kind of closure, (a word that I hate but professionals like to use! ). This was all part of my own self-therapy. I had tried the "professionals" early on and it was a disaster for me. However, after the fact and after many posts on here about my background and my war time baggage, as usual, I got cold feet and decided I had revealed too much about myself. Hence, this is why you will find many of my early posts on here deleted by me at a later date. Introspection, with honesty, can be a bitch. As you can see, I take one step forward and two steps back. I never seem to actually move and that's why I'm really not one to be giving advice to you but I will share what I can about my attempts at finding a resolution, if there is one.
Semper Fi


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## 74846544KV (Jan 31, 2008)

Hi Semper Fi

Ive struggled with PTSD 4 a very long time myself. I dont know if i will ever be cured from it, but writing about my problems really helped me. I only came to realise that while i was in therapy, hence the blog...

I thot maybe the guys will use the blog to write about thier problems..or just their experiences and in that way deal with the ghosts and deamons of the past...Sadly its not happend. But every day i still get contacted by guys who have mayor problems still. I feel i have to help them in some or other way. Thats why i thot if i can get them help online, where they can talk to a proffesional in the field it would be my way of helping. Sadly i dont know where to start. Thats why i thot ill use this forum to hear if any1 know of sum1 i can contact who will be willing and able to help these guys.

Semper Fi, im an example of the fact that there is life after PTSD, its just darn hard work to get there.


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## 03Fox2/1 (Jan 31, 2008)

There is a lady on this site that has much insight about this subject and she has a true and honest appraisal of what PTSD can and cannot do with one's life if you strive to not only survive it but to also persevere and overcome the obstacles that life throws at you. Her name on here is ArcticWolf and I would advise you to read her many contributions to this site and possibly send her a private message, if agreeable. She, like many of us, is very selective about what and when she has anything to say on this site but I have found that when she speaks about these matters, she is noteworthy and fascinating and someone that I give great credence to. She knows the subject intimately and like most long term survivors of this malady, she is a survivor by choice and personal effort. There are good days and bad and some days when you just don't want to talk to anyone. Regardless of who you correspond with, remember that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Each individual has their own set of perimeters and safety zones and no one can be forced to admit a problem or accept help from any quarter, no matter how well intentioned. I speak from personal experience, I am even reticent about saying these words to you because I know that I am no authority. I'm just an ordinary man with more questions then answers, someone that relates to the past more then the present.
Semper Fidelis ( "Always Faithful"- motto of the USMC )


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## PanzerBob (Feb 1, 2008)

Good day, Riana,

First and foremost please remember I’m not a professional, I’m fellow traveller in this largely misunderstood state of mind.

As 03Fox2/1 mentioned and I'm sure you can understand this can be difficult to talk and or even write about. I've been though a twisted path with this, but I've been luckier than most to have a family which never questioned, shrunk away from me, or abandoned me when I needed them. (I mention this first because it is probally the thing, which saved my life.)

The thumbnail version of my battle with PTSD is as follows, just so you know where, to some degree, my head is at.  I’ll try to not ramble off.

In summer of 1995 in the aftermath of the Rwandan Genocide, I was sent to Kigali as part of a Canadian UN Contingent, on very short notice.  I was part of the Intelligence Team.  Five of us to cover a lot of issues and taskings for the mission.  Being Int, job one is know your enemy or in a UN Mission case, all the players and the situation.  I drove into this like a man possessed and quickly became one with my subject, too much so as I would later come to know.

In my work I was from one end of Rwanda to other, spoke to countless survivors and witnesses, investigated massacre sites and mass graves.  As well as keeping an eye on what was going on in and out country in regards to the refugees, insurgents and with the countries’ government and military.

As the mission wore on our own people started to see no point in being there, of course they didn’t know the full picture, nor had seen the horrors.  So I took it upon myself to run “tours” to a massacre site.  Hoping to educate and inform, improve their attitudes to the mission.  Eight times maybe nine I played the “Macabre Tour Guide”, again another “mistake” to be dealt with later.

The mission became the only thing that mattered. I volunteered dangerous tasks like mine proving roads.  Went into risky areas with no thought at all, sometimes without my weapon, just to get snippets of information.  Anything to ensure we were able to produce useful Intelligence to ensure the missions’ success.  By this time I had lost my objectivity, I didn’t know this then.

You get the picture to a degree I hope because the details right now are too hard.

Six months latter we were pulled out, mission uncompleted, I begged to stay but it was over…….well…….

Home, was a sea of people seemingly with their heads buried in the ground, all of us living life too many can’t even imagine…..you know this drill, I’m sure this needs no huge explanation…..I’m angering now thinking on it.

Needless to say I spent a lot of the next while flipping out on people. I then got to my next post and found we were to be focused on Bosnia, for me at the time. It was new mission and I again made it my Mission, I lived and breathed it and while I hadn’t forgotten Rwanda I started meet other soldiers who were worse off than me, so thought well, my waking screaming in the night was just part of job and who was I to complain when these guys went though (I thought) much worse than me. The next few years went by much like this, everything was a mission and the nightmares ebbed and flowed. Despite, my attempts and my expertise I couldn’t get another deployment to Africa or the Balkans. Finally, I was posted to National Defence HQ.  The place I went had no mission I could see, I tried to get on board, but to no avail I started to fall apart.  First it was the nightmares and they started to be a regular event and my sleep began to become an issue, as I couldn’t stay awake at work, then the flashbacks and burning anger.  I now believed I was going insane.  At around this time General Dallaire, the original Commander in Rwanda, problems with PTSD went public.  My bosses sent me to the Military Hospital.

I was diagnosed with PTSD.

  My military spent 2 years filling my head full of drugs and psychobabble that left me spending the times in between sitting at home staring out the window like a zombie.  Some of what was done may of helped but their was an air of experimentation that never sat well with me, especially the drugs, the only real therapy was the short period of group therapy, the doctors, well none of them were even military let alone having any experience with real operations. Then they "retired" me as unfit from the one vocation I loved and gave 22 years of my life to, with not so much as one follow up call once out the door. I slowly phased out the drugs and the fog began to lift and pulled myself back together to some degree.  

However, I’m still coping by focusing on missions, although these days it’s my family, my job, and computer.  I still rage, although my wife knows the signs and know how to steer me away from it, the dreams still come on occasion, and the countless thousand still call to me, but I’m dealing with it. 

Riana, Now with all this being said (I thought it would shorter) I wish there was a venue like a web site to talk these out. I don’t think any professionals will ever offer faceless assistance, especially for free.  Several opinions in regards to therapy, drugs are only a Band-Aid at best, not long-term care. Doctors have to be knowledgeable about the military if treating military personnel, spending hours explaining following orders for example, is BS.  If those you love can’t accept you because of your problems, not everybody can adapt to us, I have a long list of lost friends and an ex-wife.  Those who stay by your side, you are better to have them.  Self-medicating doesn’t work, I still drink from time to time, but frankly I must be very careful of situation in which I do. One wrong statement, I’m off the deep end. Last drink, at a beach resort 2 years ago.

   I’m looking for another situation myself, because only those who have seen the elephant can truly share it, maybe not understand it, but share it.  Our VA was ever so helpful to only find a group in Toronto 6 hours away and they were not sure if there was any military in the group.  There was one here in Ottawa but it had died before I could join.

Anyway, I hope I didn’t bore you and I hope someone can find a way to help those fellow travellers, maybe even knowing others carry the demons within will help them seek some help in some form.

Whew…………….

Have a Grand Day, Bob sal;


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## 03Fox2/1 (Feb 1, 2008)

Good on you Bob.
I know this wasn't directed at me or for me but my hats off to you.
I know it wasn't easy and I recognize the significant effort you have made to help this lady and for that I'm duly impressed and I only hope she realizes what a supreme gesture of selfless compassion this was.
Semper Fi


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## PanzerBob (Feb 4, 2008)

03Fox2/1

Thanks for the kind words, no matter, if what I wrote helps one person even for one day, well it was worth it. It had been along time since I've told that story all at once like that.  I wonder if Riana doesn't come back whether it would worth giving it it's own thread.

Have a Good Day, Bob out


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## 74846544KV (Feb 4, 2008)

Good morning every1.

I have been away over the weekend, am back now, but i would like more time than what i have at the present to reply to what Bob said. Hope to find that time 2nite, i just wanted to let u guys know im still here and i appreciate all thats been sed on here alot.


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## PanzerBob (Feb 4, 2008)

74846544KV said:


> Good morning every1.
> 
> I have been away over the weekend, am back now, but i would like more time than what i have at the present to reply to what Bob said. Hope to find that time 2nite, i just wanted to let u guys know im still here and i appreciate all thats been sed on here alot.


 
ACK, Thanks, Bob Out


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## Reloader (Feb 5, 2008)

PanzerBob - thanks for sharing that with us, mate.


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## 74846544KV (Feb 7, 2008)

PanzerBob said:


> Good day, Riana,
> 
> First and foremost please remember I’m not a professional, I’m fellow traveller in this largely misunderstood state of mind.
> 
> ...



Hello BOB,

Ive had some bad luck with internet this week...I didnt have any!! But im back now, and hope to stay long enuff 4 me to atleast write to u.

I know i cant force ppl to fight PTSD, but i know the illness, there4 i know how caught up one can get in2 it. Hell, i was a mess when i decided to get help, AND IT TOOK ME A LOOOOOOOONG TIME TO GET WHERE I AM NOW!!

I just want to give the guys an option...maybe the idea of an online "shrink" wont work, but writing about it helped 4 me, and looking at what u guys r saying here, i am not the only person who could get myself better in that manner...

So what would u say i should do from here on?? I would really appreciate any help i can get.

Hugs
Ri


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## PanzerBob (Feb 8, 2008)

Good day, Riana.

I have given this a lot of thought since writing my SITREP.  I must say there might be something to be said for a place on the net where those who have problems could have public forms to unload so to speak.  I know when I read or hear the stories of other comrades in arms or even those of other professions who go into harms way or clean up the results of tragic events, I see or feel their pain and to some degree a little relief on their parts.  Even if it is only for that moment.  The large concern I see in running an Internet sight like this is, liability, and I think this maybe why you don't see any.  The Moderation of a site like that may be tricky even for a well experienced Shrink.

This site and others do have areas dedicated to PTSD and while a few will tell their stories within these forums, the primary drive is a place to post information on the topic and where & what help is available.  

Not everybody, if anybody, can put all that swirls in one's head to print.  Even my writing project omits much, and while somewhat therapeutic, it brought up some demons I had thought were banished.  (Do not worry about this, I will fight with them, I still believe if one person benefits it is more than worth it.)

Another concern and or question I have is how much help is available in your part of this world?  As well, I wonder how many suffer due to cultural taboos surrounding PTSD; I know for a fact it is still a problem here and in my military despite all information out there.

Have you had any other responses from other points?  I'm sure there are plenty who need help, and I'm sure you have a lions share there on the African continent and not just from the military sector.  

What a freakin' Pandora's Box we open when go to war, no small wonder that soldiers' pray for peace the hardest!!!!

I was really hoping, as I know you were, that a professional in the PTSD field would respond with their thoughts. But no such luck.

Back to you Riana, Your friend, Bob  sal;


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## PanzerBob (Feb 8, 2008)

03Fox2/1 & Reloader

Thanks for giving it a read.

Bob Out sal;


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## 74846544KV (Feb 13, 2008)

Can it be that ive lost some of my posts on here??

Ive made posts that dont show now??


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## PanzerBob (Feb 14, 2008)

Give the Bombardier a PM

Have a Grand Day Bob


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## 03Fox2/1 (Feb 14, 2008)

Bob,
  I have read your posts and I appreciate your input about this subject. I hope that Riana understands the personal and profound, and not without risk, effort that you have made to assist her with her original enquiry on this site. I have always been hesitant to trust people that I don't know, despite their claims to having only honest questions about PTSD. There are many times that I realized, too late, that good intentions don't make up for bad assumptions or false conclusions. I suppose any professional would quickly point out my many defensive measures as being preclusive and an obstacle to me accepting help and therefore I'm guilty of not really wanting help. I am only a layman when it comes to understanding PTSD and survivors guilt but I am someone that knows it intimately as only one can who has suffered from it for over 39 years. I believe I have outlived it's control of me but I will never outlive it's effect on me. I am a survivor and for that I am grateful and that should be enough, but it isn't. I'm sure there are over 58,000 names on the VietNam Memorial in Washington D.C. that would trade places with me, if only for one more day with their loved ones. These are the kind of arguments that reinforce my feelings of dissatisfaction with my own opinions about myself, such as my inadequacy or irrelevance about myself. This is starting to sound like self-pity, and it's not, so as usual I'll stop here for I'm afraid too much honesty on a public forum can be misconstrued and besides, my intent here was to thank you for your honest effort to assist Riana, not talk about myself.
A wise man once said: "Better to be hated for who you are, then loved for who you are not". 
Semper Fi,  Scott


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## Bombardier (Feb 15, 2008)

74846544KV said:


> Can it be that ive lost some of my posts on here??
> 
> Ive made posts that dont show now??


 
If you have emade posts in the galleries they will not show up in the forums, however your total post count for gallery and forums will show in your profile solthum


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## Bombardier (Feb 15, 2008)

> "Better to be hated for who you are, then loved for who you are not".


 
Very true  and thats a standard I live by


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