Other Post Best military rifle of WW2???

[Unregistered]

Wow!

The idea that some think that ANY bolt action rifle could be considered a better battle rifle than the Garand is truly amazing. It simply shows peoples overwhelming predudice for their own countries product. Picture you and your buddy suddenly being charged by 10 of the enemy. The enemy has bolt action rifles. Would you want self-loading rifles (Garand)? Or would you want bolt action rifles (Lee Enfield)? I mean who's kiddin' who here. I'm not saying the Garand is the greatest rifle ever made but IT IS GREATER than any bolt action battle rifle ever made. To say anything else is just a joke.

 

[TankBuster]

Hey dont be to sure

In terms of accuracy and range, many bolt actions were comparable and even excelled over the garand. Additionally, a garand(non-carbine) could not be reloaded mid-clip. Bolt actions alos lead the way in sniper rifles, as their range and accuracy once again came into play. While the Garand was a great weapon, and vital to the American success in WW-2, the bolt action rifle still has its place in the old time arsenal


Semper Fi----carry on sal;

 

[Bombardier]

The idea that some think that ANY bolt action rifle could be considered a better battle rifle than the Garand is truly amazing. It simply shows peoples overwhelming predudice for their own countries product. Picture you and your buddy suddenly being charged by 10 of the enemy. The enemy has bolt action rifles. Would you want self-loading rifles (Garand)? Or would you want bolt action rifles (Lee Enfield)? I mean who's kiddin' who here. I'm not saying the Garand is the greatest rifle ever made but IT IS GREATER than any bolt action battle rifle ever made. To say anything else is just a joke.

Although I agree with your comments to a certain degree, I found this comment quite funny considering your ip address indicates you are from America

It simply shows peoples overwhelming predudice for their own countries product.

Thanks for contributing solthum

In terms of accuracy and range, many bolt actions were comparable and even excelled over the garand. Additionally, a garand(non-carbine) could not be reloaded mid-clip. Bolt actions alos lead the way in sniper rifles, as their range and accuracy once again came into play. While the Garand was a great weapon, and vital to the American success in WW-2, the bolt action rifle still has its place in the old time arsenal

Well said mate
The unregistered member points out that a self loading rifle is far superior in the heat of battle when being charged at by numerous enemy, and I agree but as you say the Bolt action (e.g the Lee Enfield) was far more accurate and had better range. My example was purley a patriotic one

 

[Hollis]

Even though I am a Yank, I will vote for the garand too.

I think if one views the development of the battle rifle after WWII, semi auto, select fire, larger capacity magazines. The Garand was a platform that help lead to that as with the other Semi auto/select fires that were developed by countries around the world at that time.

Bolt actions will not lay down the suppressing fire a semi auto/select fire will do.

Even the US Army did not completely understand suppressing fire late in the war, they were still trying to get soldiers to make every shot count.

Interesting though Col. Berdan develop much of US Army modern warfare tactic during the American Civil War. The US Army did not fully realize his contribution till WWII or so.

Many of the Bolt guns of WWII were and still are excellent firearms. In todays military, the bolt gun is limited to snipers. Combats troops of today have select fire, larger magazine capacity battle rifles.

 

[Unregistered]

I just came accross this thread and I just had to reply.
I'm from the US, Houston Texas to be exact. I am a novice collector. In my stock are; 3 Mausers (Turkish and German), 2 Lee Enfield (SMLE and L42A1), M1, M3, Type 30 (Japanese), and a 03A3.
I collect and shoot all my rifles and pistols. My humble opinion is this both M1 and LE are great rifles but a trained soldier can shoot his LE almost as fast as a M1, I'ld have to choose the LE over the M1 though.
And of course a 1911 as a side arm and we're good to go...
Thanks....enjoyed the reading.

 

[Hollis]

My dad was trained on the 03 Springfield, he showed me how to shoot rapid fire with a bolt action. While it can be done faster, I don't think the human is as fast as semi-auto. I have to LEs, one is made by Savage. Very fine firearm. I also have a P17.

I think part of the decission is what one intends to do with the firearm, use it?

I like mauser actions, I have several also.

 

[Bombardier]

Hey Unregistered user, A NOVICE COLLECTOR! ?, with all those guns?
Jaysus Id love to see your collection in a few years. Thanks for posting

 

[Unregistered]

The Lee Enfield rifles have been voted the worlds best bolt action rifle

The previous Lee Metford rifles are not bad. Did they see service in WW1-After? or were they exported?.

 

[Bombardier]

The Lee Enfield rifles have been voted the worlds best bolt action rifle

Thats because they are buddy
IMHO bou;

 

[Dutch]

As a collector of Military battle rifles, shooter, former soldier and a American my vote go's to the M1 Garand as #1. It is not the perfect weapon but it was real close for 1943. The clip feed system and not being able to top off the magazine would be the only short comings of the M1 garand. However a trained soldier would have had an easier time loading the 8 round clips than feeding two 5-round striper clips to fully load the lee Enfield. The U.S. also only supplied its troops with ammo on the 8 round clips so there would not have been any fumbling around with single rounds or 5 round striper clips. Also it should be said that no rifle will be better than its feeding system. Even modern battle rifles like the Ak 74, FAL, and M16/ M4's are worthless unless they have good undamaged Magazines. M1 Garands feeding system is simple and reliable. The Garand is a little heavy compared to other rifles of WW2. As far as accuracy it is very accurate, I have hit targets out to 800m with my two Garands and can consistently hit point targets at 500m.
The No. 4 enfield was a fine battle rifle and deserves the it best bolt action rifle award and is #2 on my list. It is hard to believe that you Brits can't have the same rifle that helped keep the world Free. I have a No.4 Enfield and have been slowly restoring it to it's former glory of 1943. It had it's original magazine and would not feed properly making it a really fast single shot (a new magazine and it is as good as new). The Enfield had problems with its magazines and ammo. The magazines were not intended to be changed to reload the rifle, 5 round Striper clips were the primary way to reload. And the Rimmed casing of the .303 ammo could get jammed up inside the magazine. That is why they staggered the rounds in the stripper clips. It is more accurate than the M1 Garand but not that much. Most soldiers in combat, being shot at, are not going to be able to consistently hit a target at 300m, witch is well within the effective ranges of the M1 and Lee Enfields.
The problems of these two rifles are simple ones that were fixed with good training and maintenance. But witch was really best? Apples and Oranges. Both were battle proven and reliable. One has firepower and the other Accuracy. I say the M1 garand is the best.......but I am biased.

 

[Shooter]

I'm a proud owner of both a 1918 SMLE and a mid-50's M1 Garand, and I've shot friend's No. 4 Mk 1 and Mk 2's. All excellent rifles but I agree with Dutch. The rapid fire capability, sights, and higher energy M1 round, 30-06 M2 ball, 152 gr at 2740fps, ME = 2535 ft-lbs, vs. the .303 Mk7, 174 at 2440, 2301, all make it the more desireable combat rifle IMHO. While the bolt action is inherently more accurate, the M2 round shoots flatter and is less prone to deflection, at least within a few hundred yards, velocity winning out over mass. Plus the M1 is definitely NOT inaccurate.

The issued battle sights on the M1 are excellent for open sights, presenting a superior sight picture, and the rear sight is easily adjustable for windage and elevation - 1 click = 1 inch at 100 yds, ie 1 MOA. The M1 sight is easily superior to the issued British sights, which (at least on the WWI SMLEs) were even pinned.

The ability not to easily top off the magazine is moot to me because the en bloc is very easy and quick to load, easier than strippers. The clip ejection "ping" is also a moot point, mostly because of the inherent noise of all hell breaking loose in battle, and again because of the ease of reloading the Garand. Both Garands and Enfields had reputations for being extremely durable.

As I said all excellent rifles, but I'll definitely take the M1. However I still want a No. 4 for my collection!

 

[Stoats]

The ballistic difference between .30M2 and .303 mark seven is irrelevant for rifle use, since they are both overpowered. Interestingly though, the .303 mark seven was much better for long-range machine-gun use, although that itself had been superseded by the mark eight for that purpose .
Although a well-trained Lee Enfield shooter can put down aimed fire at long-range at about the same speed as his equivalent with the Garand, where the difference really comes into play is when it gets up close and personal, the semiauto user having a significant advantage.

 

[Jaffanator]

Not to get into a debate here, I still think the Garand was best. #1-look who won the war. #2- Rob, the M14 didn't come out till just after the Korean War. The Mauser 98 and the Lee-Enfield were great in their own right, but they were bolt action. When you got in a tight, you needed firepower.

The SMLE No. 4 had the best Bolt system and its general design is still used .... ( im pretty sure ) I like the M1 Grand alot But you couldent RELOAD mid clip and the "CLANG" after fiering the last round! GOD!!!

"YEAH Im outta ammo im over here!
303_no4

 

[Hollis]

The SMLE No. 4 had the best Bolt system and its general design is still used .... ( im pretty sure ) I like the M1 Grand alot But you couldent RELOAD mid clip and the "CLANG" after fiering the last round! GOD!!!

"YEAH Im outta ammo im over here!
303_no4

The clang is a hollywierd thing......... The boom is much louder than the clang.

The SMLE was ahead of it's time in WWI, as a bolt gun especially with the detachable 10 rd magazine. As accuracy goes there were a number of very accurate bolt guns.

The Garand was the start of something new, a standard issue semi-auto for the common soldier. The Russians had the SVT40 which the Germans liked more than the Russian soldier.

 

[Unregistered]

No one has said anything about Russian weapon. They're an important part of victory of WWII.
They had the Mosin-Nagant. It's one of the cheapest weapon of the war, being produced when the condition couldn't be worse. It's also easy to mass produce, as all Russian wpns, needed for a country in trouble.

 

[Stoats]

No one has said anything about Russian weapon. They're an important part of victory of WWII.
They had the Mosin-Nagant. It's one of the cheapest weapon of the war, being produced when the condition couldn't be worse. It's also easy to mass produce, as all Russian wpns, needed for a country in trouble.

Sorry, but the M.-N. was most certainly not easy to produce. The bolt is extremely complex. Nor was the Tokarev SVT-40 easy to produce.

Now, the SVT-40 would have been absolutely storming had it been in a sensible, rimless calibre and built in the West.

 

[Gun Chief]

battle rifle

As far as Battle Rifles go you have to give it to the M1 even with its faults(8 rd block clip) the US was the first and only army to arm its troops with a semi auto rifle that gave the shooter 8 rounds before reloading and not having to manipulate a bolt. The M1 is a very accurate rifle with moderate recoil.

 

[John A Silkstone]

Though I enjoy reading the topics this one is one that will not be resolved. We were all in the service at different times and trained on different weapons. Before I transferred over to the Medical Corps, I was in the Royal Artillery and my weapon was the Lee-Enfield 303 rifle or bren gun and to me it was a fantastic weapon.

The Lee-Enfield bolt-action, magazine-fed, repeating rifle was the main firearm used by the military forces of the British Empire/Commonwealth during the first half of the 20th century. It was the British Army's standard rifle from its official adoption in 1895 until 1957.

The Lee-Enfield used the 303 British cartridge and in Australia and New Zealand the rifle was so well-known that it became synonymous with the term "303". It was also used by the military forces of Canada, India, and South Africa, among others.

A redesign of the Lee-Metford, which had been adopted by the British Army in 1888, the Lee-Enfield remained in widespread British service until well into the early 1960s and the 7.62 mm L42 sniper variant remained in service until the 1990s.

As a standard-issue infantry rifle, it is still found in service in the armed forces of some Commonwealth nations.

The Lee-Enfield featured a ten-round box magazine which was loaded manually from the top, either one round at a time, or by means of five-round chargers. The Lee-Enfield was officially replaced in the UK with the L1A1 SLR in 1957. Thought I was still passing my annual target practice with the 303 in 1959.

It continues to see official service in a number of British Commonwealth nations to the present day, notably with the Indian Police and is the longest-serving military bolt-action rifle still in official service. Total production of all Lee-Enfields’ is estimated at over 17 million rifles.

Silky

 

[Hollis]

John, I think part of this is some kind of a bond that a soldier forms with his weapon. Very few of us, ever really get to run the various rifles through the paces. It could also mean that the differences are a lot more subtle than we think.

I think when the difference is great, there is little discussion on which is better. It is when the differences are minute, that volumes are written to defend the "obvious superior" choice.

 

[John A Silkstone]

I'm not saying that I'm old, BUT - I still have my blowpipe and darts. I'll take a photo and place it on site.

Silky