Warfare Russia/Ukraine War

[Fluff]

Ivan, there is a difference between the way you sometimes disagree with the Ukrainian narrative, and the way some of these other posts go.

You do not seem to be totally sold on any narrative.

Some other posts do seem to have been sold on the Russian narrative. And I too have wondered at the "why" of some of those posts.

To show what the narrative shape is like on the Russian side? Because the posters actually believe that narrative? Because they actively desire to push that narrative?

At the end of the day those questions don't actually much matter to me as I don't think that anyone is going to change my preconceptions about what have led to this point:

Russia launched a war of choice into Ukraine.
The Ukrainians are paying a monstrous human price for this.
The Russians are paying a not inconsiderable human price for this.

The concept of "winning" against this backdrop seems the wrong question overall. And this question of winning may be why some of the pro Russian posts just seem to be using the wrong measuring tape.

Will Ukraine survive this as a state? In what way? At what cost?

Will Putin survive this? At what long and short term costs to the Russian people?

How does this change the shape of the world?

Ivan likes to stir the pot. You'll get used to it. Just give him a slap once a week, and he's a pussy cat.

 

[Kriva]

Ivan, there is a difference between the way you sometimes disagree with the Ukrainian narrative, and the way some of these other posts go.

You do not seem to be totally sold on any narrative.

Some other posts do seem to have been sold on the Russian narrative. And I too have wondered at the "why" of some of those posts.

To show what the narrative shape is like on the Russian side? Because the posters actually believe that narrative? Because they actively desire to push that narrative?

At the end of the day those questions don't actually much matter to me as I don't think that anyone is going to change my preconceptions about what have led to this point:

Russia launched a war of choice into Ukraine.
The Ukrainians are paying a monstrous human price for this.
The Russians are paying a not inconsiderable human price for this.

The concept of "winning" against this backdrop seems the wrong question overall. And this question of winning may be why some of the pro Russian posts just seem to be using the wrong measuring tape.

Will Ukraine survive this as a state? In what way? At what cost?

Will Putin survive this? At what long and short term costs to the Russian people?

How does this change the shape of the world?

Mark,

not arguing that what you are saying is wrong.
If you have time and will power look into money/benefit of this conflict.
Who is going to gain most from this conflict and reasons behind that (any war is just wrong) ?

This might lead you to different path and you might discover something new (any war is just wrong).
Try it and see for yourslef.

Good luck

 

[Telmar]

Russia will push anything, including look NATO is strengthening its forces on our borders (you started a war FFS), Nazi's, nukes, bio-labs, and many many more.

You have to cut back to the basics, who is attacking who, who is dying, who is helping.

If there were real bio warfare labs, we would have seen them by now. Same for Nukes, and Nazis. And no having a right wing battalion does not mean the Nazis are running Ukraine.

That lab story is one of the stupidest yet...

I can' t put my mind to the fact that some people think a top level tech lab with material that cannot fall in enemy hands is put in a lab at 100 km from a hostile border, in a country that has no defense agreement with the power playing the pieces, and that after three weeks of fear mongering with "exercises" that nothing was brought back to safety.

A tech that has no need of being assembled anywhere near it might be used.

EDIT> before someone mentions it: "plausible deniability"

 

[Fluff]

Mark,

not arguing that what you are saying is wrong.
If you have time and will power look into money/benefit of this conflict.
Who is going to gain most from this conflict and reasons behind that (any war is just wrong) ?

This might lead you to different path and you might discover something new (any war is just wrong).
Try it and see for yourslef.

Good luck
View attachment 377289

The trouble is, are we to believe that the 2 literally most useless people to occupy the WH, are actually cunning criminal masterminds, skimming hundreds of millions, and organising a war to cover it up?

For sure some grift in his family, and I do accept the 40 years and what has he achieved. Right now he is like the grandparent, ooh be careful on that ladder(while you go up 1 metre).

I dont believe Putin was tricked into this war, and we shouldnt make such excuses for him. Again Biden isnt clever enough.

 

[Chazman]

Dude...

That's your own interpretation of the thing. And I am not sure you really understand everything either. Not withstanding the "it is yet another attempt at... blablabla".
You do not know that. Nobody does. Apart maybe for the media, since they have either fabricated and/or peddled a huge amount of misinformation since the start of this conflict (let's focus on this specific time period; but we all know the media have been making sh*t up for years, it is not their first time). They are probably the ones who know best what is true and what is not, ironically enough...

I haven't seen anything, anywhere about anybody trying to excuse:
1- Russia invasion of Ukraine.
2- Russia justifying its invasion based on the presence of these biolabs.

There is no real need for that "biolab mishap" thing to discredit our own "western government apparatus". Especially when it comes to the US f*cking sh*t up.

Anyway, biolabs, though never mentioned before, own by a country you are at war with and funded by a country that views and treats you as a hostile nation is, indeed, a threat.

The reporting on this war must be seen through a jaundiced eye. So much propaganda coming out of both sides. The western media are for the most part reading from the same script - which is, ESCALATE! The Russian media - well they are simply ridiculous. Has anyone read/heard about the peace talks from any of these outlets? The 4th meeting is happening at this moment. Both Kiev and Moscow appear hopeful something could be signed soon. Anyone reporting on that?

As far as I'm concerned, this is good place to come to see different sides of the story. I would feel a lot better right now, if the US had strong leadership at this moment in history. Because, weak leaders sleep walk you into a war.

 

[Gordus]

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Really rare and incredible combat footage. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Ivan, there is a difference between the way you sometimes disagree with the Ukrainian narrative, and the way some of these other posts go.

You do not seem to be totally sold on any narrative.

Indeed, I am not sold on any narrative.

Each are plausible in their own way, and/or may have plausible, and/or factual, elements to them, and/or may have hints of truth to them.

But in the end, any narrative being spewed, no matter the side, is fundamentally inaccurate and does not even reflects half of the side of the coin it is trying to show.

 

[Mike1976]

Russia will push anything, including look NATO is strengthening its forces on our borders (you started a war FFS), Nazi's, nukes, bio-labs, and many many more.

You have to cut back to the basics, who is attacking who, who is dying, who is helping.

If there were real bio warfare labs, we would have seen them by now. Same for Nukes, and Nazis. And no having a right wing battalion does not mean the Nazis are running Ukraine.

Give it some time, it took the Russians days to photoshop an SU25 near MH-17 and months to forge radar data filmed by a camera.

Setting up a studio with some actors, reherseals, filming and editing takes a week or two, they only came up with the idea a few days into the invasion.

"But but what 'bout Colin Powell"

 

[Telmar]

On a more fun note, Zelensky clearly wins the "fashion war" against Emmanuel Macron who now dresses as if he was stuck in the trenches near Kharkiv.

This has to stop, going off the deep end...

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Italian schoolchildren welcoming Ukrainian refugees on their first day at a new school...

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[Ivan le Fou]

The reporting on this war must be seen through a jaundiced eye. So much propaganda coming out of both sides. The western media are for the most part reading from the same script - which is, ESCALATE! The Russian media - well they are simply ridiculous. Has anyone read/heard about the peace talks from any of these outlets? The 4th meeting is happening at this moment. Both Kiev and Moscow appear hopeful something could be signed soon. Anyone reporting on that?

As far as I'm concerned, this is good place to come to see different sides of the story. I would feel a lot better right now, if the US had strong leadership at this moment in history. Because, weak leaders sleep walk you into a war.

That's because some people are frothing at the mouth and seem more than excited at the sight of blood.

War! Action! Violence! Explosion! Gets you all revved up! All excited! Your blood pumping! You are feeling young again!
Better than superbowl and the world cup put together.

 

[Fluff]

On a more fun note, Zelensky clearly wins the "fashion war" against Emmanuel Macron who now dresses as if he was stuck in the trenches near Kharkiv.

This has to stop, going off the deep end...

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Italian schoolchildren welcoming Ukrainian refugees on their first day at a new school...

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Well, Macron is having to share his trench with Putin, and everyone in the Squad knows he smells.

Did anyone mention its election year in France, just sayin.......

I imagine Macron has a jet on standby, destination Kiev. But then so does Boris!

 

[Fluff]

That's because some people are frothing at the mouth and seem more than excited at the sight of blood.

War! Action! Violence! Explosion! Gets you all revved up! All excited! Your blood pumping! You are feeling young again!
Better than superbowl and the world cup put together.

Really if your job is to get clicks/adverts, then you are driven to show more blood, make more fake video's(some take a lot of time, some just stupid) some simply offensive-but trying to be funny - offers to take hot ukrainian women in, for £350 for example.

If you think @Musashi and @CemalPasha are spamming us, you should take a look at Twitter, every cause in the world wants to know why Ukr is special, everyone knows NATO is in Ukr, has nukes, and bioweapons, wants to buy a hot ukr babe, knows which weapons cannot harm a T72 (RPG apparently) etc etc

 

[surfpunk]

That lab story is one of the stupidest yet...

I can' t put my mind to the fact that some people think a top level tech lab with material that cannot fall in enemy hands is put in a lab at 100 km from a hostile border, in a country that has no defense agreement with the power playing the pieces, and that after three weeks of fear mongering with "exercises" that nothing was brought back to safety.

A tech that has no need of being assembled anywhere near it might be used.

EDIT> before someone mentions it: "plausible deniability"

you are discounting the very words of US officials. Read back a few pages. Its not a "conspiracy theory" since we really dont know exactly what is what, but it seems clear that there is "something" just based on the words of US officials alone.
Someone will hopefully find these to show you, or you can go back in the thread a few pages.

 

[surfpunk]

On a more fun note, Zelensky clearly wins the "fashion war" against Emmanuel Macron who now dresses as if he was stuck in the trenches near Kharkiv.

This has to stop, going off the deep end...

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is it just me or does he look like he is dressed to win an election?
OT but did was he a para or military prior to politics?

 

[Hiryu2.0]

LVIV, Ukraine, March 14 (Reuters) - A convoy of over 160 cars left Mariupol on Monday, local officials said, in what appeared to be the first successful attempt to arrange a "humanitarian corridor" to evacuate civilians from the encircled Ukrainian city.

Civilians have been trapped in the Black Sea port city for more than two weeks and are running out of supplies after being surrounded by Russian forces, the Ukrainian authorities say.


After several days of failed attempts to deliver supplies to Mariupol and provide safe passage out for trapped civilians, the city council said a local ceasefire was holding and the convoy had left for the city of Zaporizhzhia.

"It is known that as of 1300 (1100 GMT) more than 160 private cars managed to leave," it said in an online post.

It said the convoy had reached the nearby city of Berdyansk and was heading on towards Zaporizhzhia.


"There is also confirmation that a ceasefire is currently holding along the humanitarian corridor that has been established," it said.

Reuters was unable immediately to verify the convoy's progress.

 

[Chazman]

you are discounting the very words of US officials. Read back a few pages. Its not a "conspiracy theory" since we really dont know exactly what is what, but it seems clear that there is "something" just based on the words of US officials alone.
Someone will hopefully find these to show you, or you can go back in the thread a few pages.

It was considered a wacky conspiracy theory until Nuland's comments. We don't know what those labs are. Could be nothing, could be something. Nuland's comments seemed concerning, though. But let's not forget she is also a swamp creature who was part of the Ukrainian color revolution.

 

[Mark Sman]

On a more fun note, Zelensky clearly wins the "fashion war" against Emmanuel Macron who now dresses as if he was stuck in the trenches near Kharkiv.

Yeah, next up an Adrian helmet. It seems like all govt./leaders are fumbling their way through the first truly global social media war.

EDIT: Except for the Ukrainians. They have been running a boss level campaign that would have Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce clinking Scotch glasses.

 

[Telmar]

is it just me or does he look like he is dressed to win an election?
OT but did was he a para or military prior to politics?

No nothing of the sort...

And I don' t care what he wears, if he shaves or not. I am bothered by him doing it for electoral purposes, I am bothered by him giving privilege to image rather than content...

 

[Telmar]

you are discounting the very words of US officials. Read back a few pages. Its not a "conspiracy theory" since we really dont know exactly what is what, but it seems clear that there is "something" just based on the words of US officials alone.
Someone will hopefully find these to show you, or you can go back in the thread a few pages.

It sounded to me as a goofy answer of people not knowing.

Look, that there are labs that' s for sure...Kharkiv had a top notch medical faculty. That those labs worked on diseases..well what labs don' t? That it was planned for bio warfare...come on!

Even the Chinese COVID 19 lab was'nt a warfare facility. And they've killed millions.

 

[surfpunk]

Really if your job is to get clicks/adverts, then you are driven to show more blood, make more fake video's(some take a lot of time, some just stupid) some simply offensive-but trying to be funny - offers to take hot ukrainian women in, for £350 for example.

If you think @Musashi and @CemalPasha are spamming us, you should take a look at Twitter, every cause in the world wants to know why Ukr is special, everyone knows NATO is in Ukr, has nukes, and bioweapons, wants to buy a hot ukr babe, knows which weapons cannot harm a T72 (RPG apparently) etc etc

I dont have twitter so I appreciate ALL the posts, of all the prolific posters here, even if I dont agree with the posts in particular. They all give various amounts of useful info and insight....