Warfare Russia/Ukraine War

[Mike1976]

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[muck]

Excerpt from Trump's new National Security Strategy:

It is a core interest of the United States to negotiate an expeditious cessation of
hostilities in Ukraine, in order to stabilize European economies, prevent unintended escalation or expansion of the war, and reestablish strategic stability with Russia, as well as to enable the post-hostilities reconstruction of Ukraine to enable its survival as a viable state.

The Ukraine War has had the perverse effect of increasing Europe’s, especially Germany’s, external dependencies. Today, German chemical companies are building some of the world’s largest processing plants in China, using Russian gas that they cannot obtain at home. The Trump Administration finds itself at odds with European officials who hold unrealistic expectations for the war perched in unstable minority governments, many of which trample on basic principles of democracy to suppress opposition. A large European majority wants peace, yet that desire is not translated into policy, in large measure because of those governments’
subversion of democratic processes. This is strategically important to the United States precisely because European states cannot reform themselves if they are trapped in political crisis.

In other words, this administration wants to end the war in Ukraine at all costs, and has the gall to claim that Europeans want the same "by a large majority" as well, which is patently false*; and that European governments subvert the course of democracy to prolong the war, which is also nonsense; and that America knows better what's good for Europeans than the representatives Europeans where stupid enough to elect.

*) As of December 2025, public support for upholding or increasing military support for Ukraine stands at 61%; 33% advocate the reduction or cessation of support. (Source)

I never thought I'd say this in my lifetime, but here it is: Yankee, go home! What paternalistic drivel.

 

[Mike1976]

many of which trample on basic principles of democracy to suppress opposition.

Neither US party has any semblance of credibility left in regards to a limit on the overreach of power.

 

[Soldier35]

New footage of Russian FPV drones in action in Ukraine and Donbas. The FPV drones used in combat include VT-40, Prince Vandal Novgorodsky, and other models, including those controlled via fiber optic cable. Technical information about them is available on the channel. The exact filming location is not disclosed. The video shows drones striking various Ukrainian military equipment and structures. Information about some of the models is available on the channel.

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[Connaught Ranger]

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I have seen the words "Military" and "Military style" bandied about but nothing clear, no weapons apparently carried, some sources quote they were flying around for 2 hours, which beggars belief, perhaps the Irish defence Forces have squeezed a few quid out the tight arses at the dept of Defence and bought a few drones for home use??

 

[muck]

Neither US party has any semblance of credibility left in regards to a limit on the overreach of power.

Agreed.

And look, here's the thing … I suppose we're all in agreement that some European countries observe worrying developments in terms of free speech restrictions (Great Britain and Germany, for example).

But this claim that European governments aid Ukraine against the express will of a majority of their peoples is, quite simply, fabrication. It is substantiated neither by election results nor by polls, so it has to be a bald-faced lie. On a Europe-wide level, both show continued support for Ukraine. And where that sentiment differs or shifts on a national level, democracy has its course, too. See the Czech elections, for example.

 

[Fluff]

Excerpt from Trump's new National Security Strategy:

In other words, this administration wants to end the war in Ukraine at all costs, and has the gall to claim that Europeans want the same "by a large majority" as well, which is patently false*; and that European governments subvert the course of democracy to prolong the war, which is also nonsense; and that America knows better what's good for Europeans than the representatives Europeans where stupid enough to elect.

*) As of December 2025, public support for upholding or increasing military support for Ukraine stands at 61%; 33% advocate the reduction or cessation of support. (Source)

I never thought I'd say this in my lifetime, but here it is: Yankee, go home! What paternalistic drivel.

it is a bit 'all over the place' short version is probably that the war is a diversion, for USA, and in USA view, for Europe. USA sees China as their enemy, and the only place USA is going to get any help from is Europe, even if its just by way of trade restrictions. Trump is trying to onshore jobs and manufacturing, and I think thats what he wants Europe to do. Personally I agree purely on tax/employment issues, why pay China to make something, and pay tax to pay unemployed people in UK/Europe/USA to sit at home. The total cost will be similar, and you wont be beholden to China. The Military/strategic benefits are additional, but obvious. And the benefits to the individual, and society are obvious.

I dont know why the democracy thing is in there, in general UK and Europe seem to be moving to the right, its just USA moved first, and given how left/soft the previous USA government was, the change is highly visible. UK politics have pushed the left of centre government to start changing the laws on immigration, and the last figures for legal migration was down from 1M to 200K in one year. Moaning that the elected government doesnt 'suit' Trump is a bit silly. Based on current polls, UK will switch to Farage in 4 years time.

Its easier for me in UK to say this, but a lot of Europe probably are happier to have UKr draining Russian forces. Same Europe that hasn't developed a drone defence, and is only now buying new weapons, 4 years after Russia started shooting. Europe doesnt exactly look dynamic or interested, it followed Biden's just enough but not too much approach, slavishly.

And to be fair, you cant escape the quote, that Europe 400M people, are scared of Russia 150M people, and are expecting USA 150M people to protect them......

How/why are we not burying Ukr under new Skyguard guns? Make 1000 of them over the next 2 years. Ukr should be begging us to stop sending more train loads of 155mm artillery rounds. We should be running recruitment adverts asking people to work in the new munition factories - just for propaganda reasons if nothing else.

 

[Chazman]

I never thought I'd say this in my lifetime, but here it is: Yankee, go home! What paternalistic drivel.

And the Yankee is saying, " YES, we are trying to go home!"

Interesting paper, by the US on the US for US strategy. Obviously it's America-centric. Why would it not be?

In the end however, if the antagonists don't agree to peace, the war continues until one side is exhausted and collapses. Europe should prepare with urgency.

 

[primer]

Same folks who couldn't name Oblasts said Kursk was surrounded etc etc are now experts. It's not as though Trump invented tariffs either and could state the obvious that it protects jobs..too much exhuberance me thinks to save a deeper economic discussion here.

 

[Musashi]

Finland is right:

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[Fluff]

Finland is right:

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I'd see that the same as UK provided Guarantees to Poland, in 1937........lovely bit of paper, but what was UK going to do?

Finland doesnt have an expeditious force, it has a conscript army with one job. I suppose they could invade Russia, but unlikely.

 

[Mike1976]

I'd see that the same as UK provided Guarantees to Poland, in 1937........lovely bit of paper, but what was UK going to do?

Well they did as they said they'd do, they declared war. That they weren't in any position to aid Poland immediately and that the US traded Poland away to the Soviets doesn't change the fact that they fought Germany over Poland.

 

[Fluff]

Well they did as they said they'd do, they declared war. That they weren't in any position to aid Poland immediately and that the US traded Poland away to the Soviets doesn't change the fact that they fought Germany over Poland.

we did, but it didnt really 'help' Poland that much, did it. And it was presumably intended to deter, clearly didnt.

 

[colin traveller]

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[Mike1976]

France takes anti-drone measures after flight over nuclear submarine base

An anti-drone and search operation was launched after five drones were detected over a base that houses France's nuclear deterrent submarines off its northwestern coast on Thursday evening.

www.france24.com

 

[primer]

Us seems to have missed in its policy bullet points to access Russians resources. Perhaps it looked too self interested if included.

 

[Mike1976]

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[RICHIECOQUI]

Russian generals call for Putin's resignation!

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[muck]

Interesting paper, by the US on the US for US strategy. Obviously it's America-centric. Why would it not be?

Sure, every country must do what works best for them. That's not the point.

(By the way, if you've not yet read the chapter on Europe, I heartily recommend you do, it's merely two pages long).

But setting aside the hostility displayed in some of the bullet points, my main point of contention is that the stated goals of that strategy cannot be achieved through the means described therein.

Regarding Ukraine, the stated purpose is to end the war as soon as possible (which means "at all costs" in face of Russia's terms), so that America can withdraw from its previous role in Eurasian affairs, and to rehabilitate European economies to the benefit of American trade.

The paper even goes so far as to suggest that Russia is no threat to Europe, that we only perceive it as such because we've forgotten "the way", becoming overrun with migrants and experiencing an economic downturn, and that we should cooperate with Russia economically (Trump does remember he spent his entire first term saying the exact opposite?).

Here are just a couple of the problems with that line of thinking:

• Appeasement invites aggression. Appeasing Putin increases the likelihood of more hostilities and risks rocking America's withdrawal from Europe. Any half-arsed settlement—like Witkoff's idea to give the Russians a demilitarised zone in Ukraine (which former USAREUR Hodges rightfully described as "inviting Putin to come and get it")—guarantees another war soon. And then what?
• Washington dealing with Moscow directly, refusing to even involve the Ukrainians (let alone the rest of Europe), counteracts the stated goal of "stabilising" Europe.* And frankly, if Trump wants to treat the Europeans like children, the helicopter parent approach isn't exactly an obvious choice. It's like a father kicking you out of the family home to "teach" you about "autonomy", but then wanting to decide where you'll reside, work, and with whom you'll socialise. (Ooooh …)
• The idea that those migration-riddled, impoverished-becoming Europeans are just unreasonably paranoid about Russia is comically stupid when you consider the countries most worried about Russia are Poland, the Baltics and Finland—ethnically and culturally homogenous nations with stable economies and a great sense of national pride—, whereas stagnating countries with large immigrant communities (like France and Germany) are actually somewhat blasé about Russia. Frankly, that paragraph alone displays a stunning ignorance on behalf of the author as to the historical underpinnings of this conflict. In short: If you're not one to also tell the Israelis to stop bitching about the Islamists surrounding them, you had best not presume to tell a country like Poland they should stop bitching about Russia.

*) By the way … I still marvel at the strategy of telling your rival that you want out at all costs, whilst also expecting to extract favourable conditions from them. That's like telling everyone you hate your job, and then threatening your boss you'll resign if you don't get a pay rise. All they'll have to do is wait for you to tire of that shtick and finally bugger off.

And that's exactly what Putin is doing.

In the end however, if the antagonists don't agree to peace, the war continues until one side is exhausted and collapses. Europe should prepare with urgency.

Absolutely, but honestly, I don't think that's the position your government takes.

Russian generals call for Putin's resignation!

In fairness, that's just one general, and a disgraced one at that: former land forces commander Colonel General Vladimir Chirkin. In 2015, he got fired and jailed for five years on corruption charges.

 

[primer]

Previously would have actually been fired.
But every anti Putinist gets an air tight case on their ass and we can also guarantee they are all currupt. They have perfected corruption.