Politics Riots in Gaza and Israel

[Deleted member 11302]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Netanyahu finding the right words.

 

[IDF_TANKER]

Possibly the fact that, when subject to a form of sustained saturation, the system will inevitably show weaknesses and, eventually, its limits.

I am not extremely familiar with the Iron Dome system when it comes to target acquisition, distribution and prioritization, but I assume it does not behave like the early Phallanx system which, when saturated, would reboot itself.

The limitations of the system may come from its limited ammunition storage (20 per "box") and, I would imagine, the time it takes to reload one of these "boxes".

But you are right, that's a moot point anyway: a weapon system isn't 100% efficient, 100% of the time, all the time. Yes, what else is new?

Yep, this is actually that simple - there are only so many batteries, which can track and intercept only so many missiles at the same time. There has been a lot of talk about how unprecedented the missile attacks are this time. What people forget is that it's unprecedented every time. They always introduce new missiles, extended range, accuracy, quantities etc. This is the nature of the arm race.

 

[Fluff]

Yep, this is actually that simple - there are only so many batteries, which can track and intercept only so many missiles at the same time. There has been a lot of talk about how unprecedented the missile attacks are this time. What people forget is that it's unprecedented every time. They always introduce new missiles, extended range, accuracy, quantities etc. This is the nature of the arm race.

If I was in Israel, I'd take the shortcomings, as its pretty much the only operational system in the world.

Even if its out of shots, it will provide warning, and it seems to ignore the rockets that will land in the sand, so 20 shots per unit will make a good impact. also the failure rate of what still looks like mass produced but home made rockets(I'm assuming everyone is good with rockets v missiles) which will have a high failure rate(no launch, failed launch, fly off anywhere, fly off and come back! etc) so the succesful launches are then split into land in sand, or land in city, and the city ones get a missile. Hamas are wasting alot of rockets/work and people to hit an apartment or a bus.

Also some of those photos of loading will have been staged in the past, I wouldnt want to be reloading today, every truck movement will be monitored etc. I dont want to get into the tech, but Israel will have some excellent systems at their disposal.

In a year or 2 laser systems will be available,. to defeat the 'mass attack' which is currently viable.

 

[BCNTM]

I'm not questioning its efficacy. But its performance likely forms a central theme in Iranian involvement (planning).

Is Iran planning to fire indiscriminate missiles at Israel then as well...............

 

[Fluff]

Is Iran planning to fire indiscriminate missiles at Israel then as well...............

Yes....No....er yes, we built them, and they only point in one direction....er no. No. Yes. maybe. Damn this war stuff is hard......

 

[Mardonius]

Nothing is ever permanent in human activities. But they got thirty years of internal peace. That' s not bad. Could take care of the foreign agitators in Syria and Lebanon back in the day without worrying too much about the internal situation.

My humble opinion is that Israel wasted the momentum given by the Trump administration with the new Arab states recognition. I'm not saying it' s easy or that the Arabs are all good-willed and all, but Israel is the winner of the conflict and should provide terms. The loser may not accept them and the conflict continues but clear terms should be on the table. I don' t have the impression they are.

This op-ed by a former Israeli tank commander makes sense:

I cannot just put my anger aside until things are quiet​

We have become so enamored with our power, that we have forgotten the rabbinic teaching that the truly powerful is the one who knows to control its use. We can stop Palestinians from sitting on the steps near Damascus Gate. We can enter the Dome of the Rock at will. We have an abundance of stun grenades at our disposal. We can even hide behind legal arguments which allow us to expel a few hundred Palestinians from their homes in East Jerusalem and settle Jews in their stead. We are, after all, the sovereign. We won the war and to the victor go the spoils. But what about the rabbinic teaching: who is wise – he or she who is able to see what is to come?

During the holy month of Ramadan, it is not the time to prove the extent of our control over Muslims, but to show our ability for self-control. It is certainly not the time to intervene with the worship and celebration unless under the most extreme conditions, conditions which we were far from meeting.

Since most Israelis believe that there is no peace partner, we have removed the peace process from our public and policy agendas. But why have we removed all discourse about our moral responsibilities towards the Palestinians from these agendas? “We offered and they said no,” is the accepted narrative, and consequently all suffering they may experience is their own responsibility. Released from any responsibility, we are exempt from blame. Criticism of Israel is either antisemitic (when done by others) or betrayal (when voiced by fellow Jews).

We stand dismayed at Israeli Arab protests, bemoaning the loss of a decade of coexistence work. We feel betrayed by them for siding with Hamas, our arch enemy. And yet we have done almost no real scalable and sustainable work of coexistence. Job creation that will help the Israeli economy – yes. Coexistence, genuine respect, understanding where they are coming from and how they experience reality – no. We are after all the victors, and as such we control the narrative. We have allowed Israeli Arabs to live in a lawless autonomous zone founded on neglect. So long as they do not pose a security risk to “us,” they can kill each other at will.

There are parts of the narrative we cannot control. The reality is that with enemies like Hamas and Hezbollah, peace is impossible.

But I am angry that we are not striving to be better: smarter, more just, more hopeful, more visionary. I am angry because over and over again we choose narratives that contribute to our moral mediocrity and elevate a bad and unsustainable status quo. I cannot put this anger aside until tomorrow. Our destiny is to always have to pay a price for our existence. Our responsibility is to strive for greatness within this destiny.

I cannot just put my anger aside until things are quiet

No question Hamas is a repulsive, immoral enemy. And yet, Israel, enamored by its own power, has failed its duty to strive to be smarter, more just, more visionary

blogs.timesofisrael.com

 

[Mardonius]

Is Iran planning to fire indiscriminate missiles at Israel then as well...............

What currently is happening with Gaza will be child's play compared to the ring of fire that Iran has build, and continues to do so, all around Israel. With missiles that are accurate and way more heavier.

 

[Fluff]

What currently is happening with Gaza will be child's play compared to the ring of fire that Iran has build, and continues to do so, all around Israel. With missiles that are accurate and way more heavier.

War is not child's play. Please try and grow up, already 100 dead, and to what end?

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Yep, this is actually that simple - there are only so many batteries, which can track and intercept only so many missiles at the same time. There has been a lot of talk about how unprecedented the missile attacks are this time. What people forget is that it's unprecedented every time. They always introduce new missiles, extended range, accuracy, quantities etc. This is the nature of the arm race.

There also is the financial aspect of the problem.

Hamas/Hezi rockets are unguided, dumb, rockets. They are cheap to make and cheap to use. In fact I wonder what is the most costly: the rocket or the launching sites (since they have to dig, then install the ramps, etc...).
Iron Dome, on the other hand, is sophisticated and expensive.

What Israel fired these past few days may represent more, in term of money, that what Hamas/Hezi fired at them for, I don't know, let's say 10 years.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Joe Biden sends senior diplomat to calm conflict in Gaza

The US State Department has dispatched a senior diplomatic official to the worsening situation in Gaza as the death toll climbs and both sides showing no signs of a ceasefire. Approximately 1500 rockets have been fired into Israel by Hamas since Monday (local time), escalating tensions between...

www.skynews.com.au

Sending the "Deputy Assistant Secretary of State"? That sounds and looks like a bit dismissive.

 

[Mardonius]

Good thing that Netanyahu has finally found the ''right words'' to address Jewish supremacy, after years of inciting anti-Arab hatred himself. But then again, consecutive Israeli governments thought they could nurture religious right-wing politics, engage in anti-Arab rhetoric and trample on the dignity of their minorities without ever suffering its consequences.

War is not child's play. Please try and grow up, already 100 dead, and to what end?

I'm just placing this round of shooting in perspective. And spare me this sudden pacifist high ground; war has been going on in the Middle East for years now with Israel itself having acted with impunity. It was only a matter of time before the chickens came home to roost.

There also is the financial aspect of the problem.

Hamas/Hezi rockets are unguided, dumb, rockets. They are cheap to make and cheap to use. In fact I wonder what is the most costly: the rocket or the launching sites (since they have to dig, then install the ramps, etc...).
Iron Dome, on the other hand, is sophisticated and expensive.

What Israel fired these past few days may represent more, in term of money, that what Hamas/Hezi fired at them for, I don't know, let's say 10 years.

The amount of rockets intercepted or targets hit, as well as the financial losses that Israel faces, are only secondary in the eventual ramifications. The biggest and most important effect is going to be a dramatic change in Israel's sense of security.

 

[Deleted member 11302]

Good thing that Netanyahu has finally found the ''right words'' to address Jewish supremacy, after years of inciting anti-Arab hatred himself. But then again, consecutive Israeli governments thought they could nurture religious right-wing politics, engage in anti-Arab rhetoric and trample on the dignity of their minorities without ever suffering its consequences.

LOL, the level of gaslighting from you is absolutely hysterical. Ask the average Iranian what he/she thinks about Arabs and you would make the KKK blush with envy and shame at the same time. And yes, that includes your beloved IRGC beard-faces to whom the Arabs are just cannon fodder and useful idiots/mercenaries.

So please spare me this facade of philanthropy and humanism that you cannot even uphold for 5 seconds without getting caught in your own BS.

 

[Mardonius]

LOL, the level of gaslighting from you is absolutely hysterical. Ask the average Iranian what he/she thinks about Arabs and you would make the KKK blush with envy and shame at the same time. And yes, that includes your beloved IRGC beard-faces to whom the Arabs are just cannon fodder and useful idiots/mercenaries.

So please spare me this facade of philanthropy and humanism that you cannot even uphold for 5 seconds without getting caught in your own BS.

Don't ever equate Iran with that Jewish supremacy state that forcefully evicted itself in the Middle East and now screams murder because of all the backlash it is facing.

 

[IDF_TANKER]

This op-ed by a former Israeli tank commander makes sense:

I cannot just put my anger aside until things are quiet​

We have become so enamored with our power, that we have forgotten the rabbinic teaching that the truly powerful is the one who knows to control its use. We can stop Palestinians from sitting on the steps near Damascus Gate. We can enter the Dome of the Rock at will. We have an abundance of stun grenades at our disposal. We can even hide behind legal arguments which allow us to expel a few hundred Palestinians from their homes in East Jerusalem and settle Jews in their stead. We are, after all, the sovereign. We won the war and to the victor go the spoils. But what about the rabbinic teaching: who is wise – he or she who is able to see what is to come?

During the holy month of Ramadan, it is not the time to prove the extent of our control over Muslims, but to show our ability for self-control. It is certainly not the time to intervene with the worship and celebration unless under the most extreme conditions, conditions which we were far from meeting.

Since most Israelis believe that there is no peace partner, we have removed the peace process from our public and policy agendas. But why have we removed all discourse about our moral responsibilities towards the Palestinians from these agendas? “We offered and they said no,” is the accepted narrative, and consequently all suffering they may experience is their own responsibility. Released from any responsibility, we are exempt from blame. Criticism of Israel is either antisemitic (when done by others) or betrayal (when voiced by fellow Jews).

We stand dismayed at Israeli Arab protests, bemoaning the loss of a decade of coexistence work. We feel betrayed by them for siding with Hamas, our arch enemy. And yet we have done almost no real scalable and sustainable work of coexistence. Job creation that will help the Israeli economy – yes. Coexistence, genuine respect, understanding where they are coming from and how they experience reality – no. We are after all the victors, and as such we control the narrative. We have allowed Israeli Arabs to live in a lawless autonomous zone founded on neglect. So long as they do not pose a security risk to “us,” they can kill each other at will.

There are parts of the narrative we cannot control. The reality is that with enemies like Hamas and Hezbollah, peace is impossible.

But I am angry that we are not striving to be better: smarter, more just, more hopeful, more visionary. I am angry because over and over again we choose narratives that contribute to our moral mediocrity and elevate a bad and unsustainable status quo. I cannot put this anger aside until tomorrow. Our destiny is to always have to pay a price for our existence. Our responsibility is to strive for greatness within this destiny.

I cannot just put my anger aside until things are quiet

No question Hamas is a repulsive, immoral enemy. And yet, Israel, enamored by its own power, has failed its duty to strive to be smarter, more just, more visionary

blogs.timesofisrael.com

Typical leftist nonsense, all of it. No clear points or arguments, just the usual vague nonsense about how we could do more and all of this somehow our fault. Interestingly enough, in the post-Intifada age you almost never hear it as part of public discourse even from our leftist politicians. Now we know better, we've learned the hard way. Now days it reserved to various "think tanks" and garbage English-language publications like Haaretz - basically the people who are being paid for this garbage.

I was too a tank commander, so f***ing what?

 

[Mardonius]

Typical leftist nonsense, all of it. No clear points or arguments, just the usual vague nonsense about how we could do more and all of this somehow our fault. Interestingly enough, in the post-Intifada age you almost never hear it as part of public discourse even from our leftist politicians. Now we know better, we've learned the hard way. Now days it reserved to various "think tanks" and garbage English-language publications like Haaretz - basically the people who are being paid for this garbage.

I was too a tank commander, so f***ing what?

I know Bibi has masterfully turned this 'leftist' political term into something abhorrent and dirty, but why this anger? The man argues for a change of tone and state and societal practices, which seems reasonable. You don't think the current situation is untenable and needs to change?

 

[IDF_TANKER]

Don't ever equate Iran with that Jewish supremacy state that forcefully evicted itself in the Middle East and now screams murder because of all the backlash it is facing.

God forbid, mate. God forbid.

Gay man brutally murdered and beheaded by family in Iran in ‘honour killing’. He was just 20 years old

An Iranian gay man was brutally murdered and beheaded by his family in a horrific “honour killing” after they found out he was gay.

uk.news.yahoo.com

 

[Fluff]

Typical leftist nonsense, all of it. No clear points or arguments, just the usual vague nonsense about how we could do more and all of this somehow our fault. Interestingly enough, in the post-Intifada age you almost never hear it as part of public discourse even from our leftist politicians. Now we know better, we've learned the hard way. Now days it reserved to various "think tanks" and garbage English-language publications like Haaretz - basically the people who are being paid for this garbage.

I was too a tank commander, so f***ing what?

When rockets are flying, its not time to see how your feeling about being a tank commander.

@Mardonius likes to pick up some of this garbage, that the self centred 'west' is crumbling, while Iran climbs to new heights every day.

The 100 casualties I mentioned, are mostly in Gaza, not that this is a football match, with a score chart.

 

[Mardonius]

God forbid, mate. God forbid.

Gay man brutally murdered and beheaded by family in Iran in ‘honour killing’. He was just 20 years old

An Iranian gay man was brutally murdered and beheaded by his family in a horrific “honour killing” after they found out he was gay.

uk.news.yahoo.com

Don't compare apples with oranges.

Those perpetrators should be hanged. I don't whitewash crimes committed by our share of barbaric nutjobs.

 

[Deleted member 11302]

Don't ever equate Iran with that Jewish supremacy state that forcefully evicted itself in the Middle East and now screams murder because of all the backlash it is facing.

I don't take directions from you on what I can or cannot say, Bacheye Hezbollahi badbakht. Furthermore I wasn't equating anything, I was pointing out your inconsistency, your selective outrage and your feeble attempts at gaslighting people. You need to start learning how to debate people who aren't moronic, left-wing Western European university-campus dregs.

 

[IDF_TANKER]

I know Bibi has masterfully turned this 'leftist' political term into something abhorrent and dirty, but why this anger? The man argues for a change of tone and state and societal practices, which seems reasonable. You don't think the current situation is untenable and needs to change?

Bibi is the byproduct, not the reason for the fact that Israeli left got completely decimated in the post-Intifada era - both politically and ideologically. Everything they stood for vis-a-vis the Israel-Arab conflict was proven empirically irrevocably and disastrously wrong. The article is the typical garbage, because it doesn't suggest anything concrete (because there is actually nothing to suggest), whilst vaguely (again, there is not much you can actually argue) blaming Israel for "not doing more". The truth is that Israel in many ways is probably the most Muslim friendly country in the West, which constantly bends backwards to allow freedom of worship for Muslims, whilst at times discriminating Jews as a matter of policy (when it comes to access to Temple Mount for example). The Arab Israeli society for a very long time has been devastated by endemic social processes, about which the gov. has virtually nothing to do, e.g. clan wars, honor killings etc etc. This whole "we could do more" S**t is not helpful, it's a pathetic and pointless display of masturbatory self-righteousness, whose whole and only point is virtue signalling. And I have absolutely no f***ing patience for this.