Politics Anti-immigration demonstration in England

My 2c perspective on what is happening.

1. The correction option
A range of possibilities, starting from some sort of massive civilian violence (including a civil war) to a temporary suspension of democracy with mass stripping off citizenship and deportations. Those possibilities don't have to be mutually exclusive - the latter might follow the former, for example.

Thanks for offering a perspective, from someone who I believe has lived in Israel since the late Intifada or before even (?).

On this first point and possibility: I used to believe those causing troubles could be deported, en masse not emptying the sea with a spoon as I’d literally translate the French expression. I don’t believe it much anymore now. Seems like that ship has sailed as you’ve witnessed recently with the Parliamentary elections in France where the far-right was supposedly winning a majority and a sufficient number of seats to govern and give Macron headaches. Right or wrong it hasn’t happened and we’re headed to a status quo or worse: having the left/far left gets its PM.

Also would like to add that while Brexit wasn’t only an immigration issue, since it happened immigration and illegal one at that has worsened there. Not going back to Tony Blair who let in millions then but in recent years.

2. The demise option
Civil and political disintegration into deeply dysfunctional sectarian society like Lebanon. As a matter of fact, Lebanon is more or less the perfect example of the trajectory the European Western countries are currently on - namely, rapid demographic changes (crucially, Middle Eastern Muslims vs Western[-ized] Christians), which rapidly remade a prosperous free westernized society into... well, what it is today.

This is a common mistake, BTW, on part of people, who think UK, France, Sweden or Germany will become some sort of Sharia states, like Saudi Arabia. For various reasons I'm not going to expand on for now, this not what is going to happen in the second option at all - Lebanon is by far the more correct/relevant example, than a typical Gulf Kingdom. Houellebecq's "Submission", usually lauded as prophecy, is very - optimistically - wrong.

Now that’s something more likely, some also mentioned a Balkanization of our societies. The Balkans are a complex issue as well, but the Kosovo « Heart of Serbia » turning predominantly Muslim over the last century is also worth considering at the difference that we Western Europeans have numerous cultures and ethnicities when the Serbs had Albanians / kosovars making the Lebanon analogy more likely. A Tower of Babel of minorities as Pat Buchanan called it then.

Just as an ado, as an also Houellebecq aficionado and reader. He used to be prophetic « Platform » one of his novel that impressed many then called the Bali attack in 2002 against mainly Aussies back when he was writing it three year before, two years before 9/11 too.

I like the author and now actor. He’s not God, just a writer and most of his books have called things right, he’s also incredibly morose.
 
Thanks for offering a perspective, from someone who I believe has lived in Israel since the late Intifada or before even (?).

On this first point and possibility: I used to believe those causing troubles could be deported, en masse not emptying the sea with a spoon as I’d literally translate the French expression. I don’t believe it much anymore now. Seems like that ship has sailed as you’ve witnessed recently with the Parliamentary elections in France where the far-right was supposedly winning a majority and a sufficient number of seats to govern and give Macron headaches. Right or wrong it hasn’t happened and we’re headed to a status quo or worse: having the left/far left gets its PM.

Also would like to add that while Brexit wasn’t only an immigration issue, since it happened immigration and illegal one at that has worsened there. Not going back to Tony Blair who let in millions then but in recent years.



Now that’s something more likely, some also mentioned a Balkanization of our societies. The Balkans are a complex issue as well, but the Kosovo « Heart of Serbia » turning predominantly Muslim over the last century is also worth considering at the difference that we Western Europeans have numerous cultures and ethnicities when the Serbs had Albanians / kosovars making the Lebanon analogy more likely. A Tower of Babel of minorities as Pat Buchanan called it then.

Just as an ado, as an also Houellebecq aficionado and reader. He used to be prophetic « Platform » one of his novel that impressed many then called the Bali attack in 2002 against mainly Aussies back when he was writing it three year before, two years before 9/11 too.

I like the author and now actor. He’s not God, just a writer and most of his books have called things right, he’s also incredibly morose.
I've been living in Israel since 1995, so yes, from before the second Intifada has started.

Also, to continue the discussion, there is the third "Israeli" option. I didn't mention because I'm not sure how realistic it is given the European realities, but for whatever it's worth, here it goes:
Israel is a very interesting case of working out its own version of coexistence with Arab Muslim minority (there are other minority community, but this one is by far the largest and most "problematic").

The Israeli model has three main components:

1. Unapologetic assertion of the national identity - no multiculturalism, no nothing. Those things don't really exist in our political vocabulary, even on the left side of the mainstream political spectrum. The most basic foundation of state explicitly stated in the Declaration of Independence - Jewish and Democratic. A formula, which is being repeated like mantra during whatever political arguments we are having.

2. Extremely low tolerance to any violent challenge of public/political order - the cases of mass scale violence on the order we witness in the West (now, BLM riots, etc) are very rare and relatively quickly and aggressively suppressed. I'm not talking about Intifada, BTW, this was different event - basically, insurgency. I'm talking about internal civil unrest. Having an extremely acute sense of self-preservation has its benefits.

3. Given all that, maximal accommodation (not integration, about this later) of the local Arab/Muslim minorities within the Israel civil society. This includes public education system and gov. services in Arabic, Sharia Courts (existed in Israel pretty much since the state establishment), some affirmative action policies (job programs, higher education), full political representation, full civil rights and explicit anti-racial discrimination laws and policies. There are three main Arab parties in Israel more or less constantly represented in Knesset - Arab nationalists, communists and Islamists. There are Arab judges in courts (including Supreme), ministers in gov., high-ranking police officers etc etc.

Now about the integration:
Nobody in Israel is trying to "integrate" the Arabs, the way it's usually understood in the West, i.e. accept our culture/values or any such nonsense. We are all too acutely aware about how the differences are fundamental and unbridgeable. Whenever there is any "integration" talk in the context of minorities (as opposed to Jewish immigrants, lets say), it's usually strictly confined to access to education, job market etc - the real practical issues. The idea is to preserve our dearly acquired nationhood, whilst providing the minorities maximum wellbeing without compromising the foundations of the state. The fact, that the Jewish and Arab communities historically live mostly separately does help to facilitate all this.

I'm not going to pretend it's all perfect, there are tonnes of problem, but... given the sheer challenges Israel experienced during 70+ years of its existence, the Israeli democracy is nothing short of a miracle.

I call this model the Enlightened Nationalism (or, somewhat more provocatively - and to make a point - Enlightened Chauvinism).The kind of nationalism, which builds upon dominance and primacy of a given culture/religion in the given polity, as opposed to- and in contrast to domination and supremacy. It's about priorities and protection of the societal foundations vs establishment of some sort of effed-up absolutist anti-human hierarchy, which allows for anything to be done to those below. Just my personal formulation of the Israeli model. I'm reasonably confident Hungary, Czech Republic etc are making their way in more or less the same direction.
 
Last edited:
What happening in England is insane. My heart goes out to our British members at this difficult moment.

My 2c perspective on what is happening.
First, completely expected and unavoidable, unfortunately. I've been watching what's happening in Europe for couple of decades now. Armed with Israeli perspective it always was crystal clear to me that there will be happy ending to all of it. Basically, I simply could not see a possible outcome, which was not going to be one of two main options:
1. The correction option
A range of possibilities, starting from some sort of massive civilian violence (including a civil war) to a temporary suspension of democracy with mass stripping off citizenship and deportations. Those possibilities don't have to be mutually exclusive - the latter might follow the former, for example.
2. The demise option
Civil and political disintegration into deeply dysfunctional sectarian society like Lebanon. As a matter of fact, Lebanon is more or less the perfect example of the trajectory the European Western countries are currently on - namely, rapid demographic changes (crucially, Middle Eastern Muslims vs Western[-ized] Christians), which rapidly remade a prosperous free westernized society into... well, what it is today.

This is a common mistake, BTW, on part of people, who think UK, France, Sweden or Germany will become some sort of Sharia states, like Saudi Arabia. For various reasons I'm not going to expand on for now, this not what is going to happen in the second option at all - Lebanon is by far the more correct/relevant example, than a typical Gulf Kingdom. Houellebecq's "Submission", usually lauded as prophecy, is very - optimistically - wrong.

I'm truly sorry this is happening, I can only imagine the pain and anxiety for the future the British people are experiencing now... but maybe something good will come out of all this chaos eventually.
The second option is far more likely and the reason is very simple: there’s a large silent majority who doesn’t like what happens but whose balls are tied up by the rules. If I was caught participating in a riot, I’d have a criminal record, my university degree would become useless, and my employability would become very limited. Most people have the same problem.
After I came to the UK in 2007, I had been doing an unskilled job for many years and I don’t want to do it again. Needless to say, I’m older by nearly 17 years.
Also, the British voting system prevents anti-immigrant parties to gain a proportional representation in the parliament. There’s the same problem in France.

Speaking of me, I’m not comfortable with anti-Muslim figures, like Tommy Robinson and Paul Golding, being pro-Russian. It’s totally unacceptable to a guy who was born in Poland. The RuZZians never give out freebies. They tie up your balls by giving you money and they blackmail you if you don’t do what you want.

Labour had been in bed with islamists for many years, as it needs their votes. The most ridiculous bit is that Labour also wants to integrate Muslims with LGBT.
The outcome was expected:

Also, islamist politicians join Labour to become recognisable and then they abandon it, as it happened in the North of England this year. I expect a Muslim party in the UK, that would be similar to DENK in Holland, very soon.
We cannot consider the UK a Christian country anymore, but a post-Christian country instead. Many beautiful empty churches are bought by Muslims and converted into mosques.

Furthermore, the Brexit sped the process up, as there’s no free movement of people between the EU and the UK anymore and there are far more Asians than Europeans immigrating to the UK presently.

The future doesn’t look bright and I don’t think much can be done to change it for the reasons mentioned above. I may return to Poland when I retire, as we wouldn’t allow such madness to happen in Poland, as left-wing parties have an approval rate of 5-8% there. Who needs the left in Poland if a „right-wing” party like PiS will give you far more freebies than the left has ever done? My homies discovered that national socialism is better than the traditional one. Well, the Scots discovered the same but they smartened the fvck-up this year.

Speaking of Lebanon, Israel has greatly contributed to its demographics by dumping a fvckton of Palestinian refugees there. The civil war in Syria made the bad trend even worse.
 
Last edited:
a few minutes but worthwhile:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
I've been living in Israel since 1995, so yes, from before the second Intifada has started.

Also, to continue the discussion, there is the third "Israeli" option. I didn't mention because I'm not sure how realistic it is given the European realities, but for whatever it's worth, here it goes:
Israel is a very interesting case of working out its own version of coexistence with Arab Muslim minority (there are other minority community, but this one is by far the largest and most "problematic").

The Israeli model has three main components:

1. Unapologetic assertion of the national identity - no multiculturalism, no nothing. Those things don't really exist in our political vocabulary, even on the left side of the mainstream political spectrum. The most basic foundation of state explicitly stated in the Declaration of Independence - Jewish and Democratic. A formula, which is being repeated like mantra during whatever political arguments we are having.
What you really stand out from the rest of non-sh1thole countries is your fertility rate of 3.0 children per woman which is higher than any of your Arab neighbours without any exceptions. Many European countries have half of your fertility rate, so they believe the best solution is importing immigrants which would solve the problem of a shrinking economy due to the decreasing population and the problem of a sufficient number of production-age people who would contribute towards pensions.

Also, you don't have any strong pro-immigration parties who would fight for immigrants' votes.
 
Last edited:
In the recent elections, did any poltician push a "hard on crime" stance?

Reading what IDF posted, I think from where I stand that there is too much tolerance to violence on the street, in sports, in society in general.
 
Some 30 years ago, when I was around 12 years old, my parents had friends over for diner, including an Israeli one.
After a while they were talking politics, not particularly an interesting topic at that age. I still remember it, because it became a bit heated after a while. The Israeli stated that us Europeans didn’t have the slightest idea what we had been, and still were, importing. We were way too naive, the Islamic immigrants had a very different mindset and it simply wouldn’t mix with our western values, etc.
The Dutch guests thought he was way too intolerant, saw things from an Israeli perspective, was exaggerating, etc. His answer was: ‘you just wait. You can’t fathom the trouble you Europeans will have within the next few decades.’
More often than I would like, I’m reminded of his words and how spot on he was with his predictions. I also sometimes still wonder if those Dutch guests remember that conversation as well and realise how wrong they were and they were indeed the naive ones.
 
1722976844645.webp


What on Earth is happening here?? Did I wake up in an alternative dimension or something?? 🤯
 
Last edited:
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

What on Earth is happening here?? Did I wake up in an alternative dimension or something?? 🤯
I'm struggling to decipher their description? So the Juice are behind the violence in UK?
 
Syrian Girl is one of the worst anti-Israel/West/Jews propaganda channels on X. Not sure why you even bothered...
You're right, she's always been awful, sorry I should have screenshotted that instead. Still, interviewing Nick Griffin who was the leader of an actual openly racist borderline Nazi political party really takes the cake. So much for "I don't hate Jews, just Zionists" (yes I know that statement is bullshit in itself).
 
Last edited:
Some 30 years ago, when I was around 12 years old, my parents had friends over for diner, including an Israeli one.
After a while they were talking politics, not particularly an interesting topic at that age. I still remember it, because it became a bit heated after a while. The Israeli stated that us Europeans didn’t have the slightest idea what we had been, and still were, importing. We were way too naive, the Islamic immigrants had a very different mindset and it simply wouldn’t mix with our western values, etc.
The Dutch guests thought he was way too intolerant, saw things from an Israeli perspective, was exaggerating, etc. His answer was: ‘you just wait. You can’t fathom the trouble you Europeans will have within the next few decades.’
More often than I would like, I’m reminded of his words and how spot on he was with his predictions. I also sometimes still wonder if those Dutch guests remember that conversation as well and realise how wrong they were and they were indeed the naive ones.
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
With her excessive make-up and eyes, she looks more like a RuZZian girl.
How come she is allowed to live in Australia?
Same way the "gas the jews" crew do, freedom of speech and all that. She preaches about how good Assad and Hezbollah are but she won't actually live in Syria for some reason, funny that...
 
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Basically, immigrant communities in the UK live under different laws and enforcement than do Brits.
 
I don't know if I should laugh or cry watching this video:
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Basically, immigrant communities in the UK live under different laws and enforcement than do Brits.
I would very much love to know why that scum that comes from the shitholes have more rights than the natives

Fvck those sold out politicians
 
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Surprised it took so long for this sort of thing to come about...
 

Similar threads

Back
Top